Trestle Press - writer beware

[Julia Madeleine]

Trestle Press had (might still have) an author named Stephen H. King.

[Julie Morrigan]

This has raced on apace since I was last here, more writers have left Trestle Press and have posted (like Julia, above) on their blogs about it. To get an idea of what this 'publisher' thinks of writers, see Angel Zapata's post here: http://arageofangel.blogspot.com/2012/02/trestle-press-copyright-infringement.html

'Sure thing, thanks.' That's it.

Two things I don't understand (well, many, really, but let's focus on two):

First, I don't understand why some people who have severed ties with TP as a direct result of this scandal still say they wish them well. I've seen this on Facebook and Twitter, as well as here. A publisher that lied to you, tainted your name and reputation, and broke the law, and they are still wished well.

Second, I don't understand why people are still with them at all, never mind those people who have come out and publicly supported them.

See here: http://noirtaketurner-frank.blogspot.com/2012/02/of-late-publisher-i-work-with-trestle.html (Incidentally, if you read the comments, you will see that the new cover design for this writer's series is another company's logo.)

And here: http://whithowlandsthreeringcircus.blogspot.com/2012/02/about-trestle-press.html

There are other supporters, generally saying things like, 'He's been all right with me.' In other words, 'I'm all right, Jack.'

What I do understand, and I've seen plenty of this, too, is the anger, outrage and hurt many of the writers have expressed. This has been a massive betrayal of trust. This 'publisher' has committed a series of criminal acts. Why would anyone with integrity want to support or remain linked with such an organisation?

Baffles me.

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

Why would anyone with integrity want to support or remain linked with such an organisation?

Why do people continue to use PublishAmerica?  Why do people continue to use Outskirt Press?  Why did tens of thousands of people use Poetry.com before the domain was bought? 

Some people are too trusting.  Some people are complacent.  Some people adopt the "It can't happen to me" approach.  Some are just dumb as wood.  Some feel they have to defend the company because to do otherwise is to admit they made a mistake.  There are a half dozen reasons.

I've long said that If I was unethical, I'd already be a millionaire.  Alas, my parents raised me right and so I remain poor...

[Julie Morrigan]

Why do people continue to use PublishAmerica?  Why do people continue to use Outskirt Press?  Why did tens of thousands of people use Poetry.com before the domain was bought? 

Some people are too trusting.  Some people are complacent.  Some people adopt the "It can't happen to me" approach.  Some are just dumb as wood.  Some feel they have to defend the company because to do otherwise is to admit they made a mistake.  There are a half dozen reasons.

I've long said that If I was unethical, I'd already be a millionaire.  Alas, my parents raised me right and so I remain poor...

Ha ha, fair point! And I suspect we may both remain poor ... 

(Although I might not have been raised as well as you, because I sometimes look at Authorhouse and have a wee giggle at the inanity of some of the stuff there just to cheer myself up on bad days when the words refuse to march smartly onto the page, but slouch forth like recalcitrant children. )

[ChristinePope]

Well, I'm happy to say that at least part of this story has a happy ending. The Drunk on the Moon anthology edited by Paul Brazill is going to be published by Dark Valentine Press. Paul's original "Drunk on the Moon" story first appeared in Dark Valentine magazine while it was still being produced, so it seemed a natural place for the anthology to end up.

We're still hammering out all the details, but rest assured that it will be professionally edited and formatted, and that we will have the rights to use the cover art. 

[Monique]

Another thing all of the supporters/ignorers/deniers are missing is that people like me won't buy Trestle books now. They might be great authors with wonderful books, but I won't give the company a dime and will encourage others not to as well. Hopefully, he'll be sued and just go out of business and the remaining authors can come to their senses.

[Julie Morrigan]

@Christine - well, that's something, anyway. And the series will benefit greatly from editing/proofing.

@Monique - That's a very good point! I made the decision some time ago that I wouldn't buy another TP 'book', no matter who the author was. The quality of many of them was just so poor. And it's certainly not a decision I intend to change now. Incidentally, TP have just lost B.R. Stateham, one of their most stalwart supporters. http://noirtaketurner-frank.blogspot.com/2012/02/ive-said-fairwell-to-trestle-press.html It may or may not be linked to the fact that confirmation came through this afternoon from the company whose logo was stolen for the book cover that they had not given permission for its use.

They still have some supporters, one of whom (Sam Lang) is blaming the authors for leaving rather than the publisher for stealing. (Comments on Facebook and Whit Howland's blog (link above in my previous post). And in just the past hour or so, three more stolen images have been identified.

[Rex Jameson]

There's a large segment of the author population who are writing purely for hobby. To them, all they care about is having a book that they can show family members. They don't care how well it sells, how well edited it is, or have any realistic hopes of being a top author. It's more of a bucket-list type thing. I've met many of them. Nothing wrong with it, but it's pretty common and is likely keeping many people with Trestle. Same with PublishAmerica.

I honestly don't wish anything ill on Trestle Press. If this Giovanni guy gets his act together and starts editing the works better and focusing on quality, he may even recover from this, but there'd have to be a LOT of change. The covers and editing are most important. And I'd really like for the whole outfit to stop giving 5 star reviews to all of their books on Goodreads. This guy has no idea how shady that looks to people who notice it.

I'm not going to claim I would never read a book by Trestle Press. I rarely look at the publisher when someone I know and trust highly recommends a book to me--especially a free book. But from the looks of the business model, the contracts, the covers, the editing, and the type of promotion this company engages in, I can't imagine someone I know recommending Trestle books to me.

As for why authors are saying "I wish Trestle Press all the best" when they leave? They're just trying to be professional. We've had too many writers fly off the handle and publicly berate reviewers, bloggers, and service providers. I would rather them say "I wish Trestle Press all the best" rather than "!#$! %!#$ your !$#!#$!@ mother and !#$!%! with those glass slippers you !#$!#$ gave me, Trestle Press!" The fact that those authors left the publisher permanently says plenty. We don't have to make this into a twitter storm worthy of being reenacted by Charlie Sheen.

[smiscandlon]

And I'd really like for the whole outfit to stop giving 5 star reviews to all of their books on Goodreads. This guy has no idea how shady that looks to people who notice it.

Until a month or so ago Giovanni Gelati had also given 5-star reviews to all Trestle Press titles on Amazon (including those on which he was credited as an author or co-author).  Those reviews were removed after Amazon was made aware of the connection.

[Rex Jameson]

As they should. Again, it's just painfully obvious that this guy has no idea what he's doing. Blind leading the blind.

[Julie Morrigan]

The scandal rumbles on, so I thought I'd round up some of the recent highlights.

More writers have parted company with TP, some graciously, others not, as Stephen H King has shown in many of his comments. Here's his blog post announcing his decision to leave: http://theotherstephenkingonwriting.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-chapter.html

This is another writer's take on leaving, and it's a lot less rabid (although SHK does turn up in the comments): http://theuniversalthump27.blogspot.com/2012/02/trestle-press-should-not-be-trusted.html

The Feb 8 comment by SJM001 on the above blog post will take you to a screenshot of the now deleted FB rant by TP author Jason Hughes (Without Notice), who is staying with the company. Here's a direct link: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6840658839_7df3c0a57f_o.png

Whit Howland is also staying put: http://whithowlandsthreeringcircus.blogspot.com/2012/02/about-trestle-press.html as is Sam Lang, who gets straight to what he believes is the point in the comments (Anon, 2nd Feb).

More stolen artwork has been identified and the journal updated at DeviantArt: http://doodle777.deviantart.com/journal/Art-Theft-Boo-282415361?

Giovanni Gelati has been outed as someone who not only uses a false name, but also has a photograph of someone else entirely - used without the photographer's permission - as his profile pic pretty much everywhere on the Web: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andregustavo/211801348/in/set-72157594145389145/ He has also been named on Twitter as Michael Paul Brachelli.

But he's still in business, so keep on spreading the word, people. It's still very much a case of writer beware.

[StephenHKing]

As for why authors are saying "I wish Trestle Press all the best" when they leave? They're just trying to be professional. We've had too many writers fly off the handle and publicly berate reviewers, bloggers, and service providers. I would rather them say "I wish Trestle Press all the best" rather than "!#$! %!#$ your !$#!#$!@ mother and !#$!%! with those glass slippers you !#$!#$ gave me, Trestle Press!" The fact that those authors left the publisher permanently says plenty. We don't have to make this into a twitter storm worthy of being reenacted by Charlie Sheen.

Thank you. 

I'm used to having to be a bit of a jerk on purpose occasionally in my day job.  What struck me as bizarre here was that I wasn't trying to be a jerk at all to my fellow TP authors, but it got taken that way. 

If you're a TP author and reading this, I've revised my original blog post, removing the phrase that seemed to have triggered all the anger toward me.  If, after reading the revised version, you find there's still something to be offended over, let me know.  It isn't, and has never been, my intent to insult or offend those who were also scammed by Trestle. 

Stephen H. King

[smiscandlon]

I wasn't trying to be a jerk at all to my fellow TP authors, but it got taken that way ... It isn't, and has never been, my intent to insult or offend those who were also scammed by Trestle.

Does this include your referring to them as "a bunch of screaming children" on deviantART?  Or your continual references to a "witch hunt"?  Or "your little party of art vigilantes"?

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

Folks, we have a very strict "What happens on [name of site] stays on [name of site]." Please don't bring outside drama here.  Or Betsy might give me permission to Force Choke the lot of you!

[smiscandlon]

Folks, we have a very strict "What happens on [name of site] stays on [name of site]." Please don't bring outside drama here.  Or Betsy might give me permission to Force Choke the lot of you!

Fair enough Julie ... just trying to give some perspective on why some people are very upset.

[EthanRussellErway]

I have no horse in this race, but for those defending TP, consider this-

What if some artist ripped the cover off of your book, slapped his own drawing on the front of it, and then tried to sell the whole thing as his own work?

And lied to his agent, publisher, etc. to get them all involved as well?

How would you like them apples?

[StephenHKing]

Does this include your referring to them as "a bunch of screaming children" on deviantART?  Or your continual references to a "witch hunt"?  Or "your little party of art vigilantes"?

Not long ago there were over 90 Trestle Press authors.  There are, near as I can tell, less than a single handful of "screaming children," chief among them the authors who were never under the Trestle banner.  I believe I'm speaking of two different groups. 

So yes--though I hope to not bring other sites' drama here, I do wish to respectfully respond to your comment.  The "screaming children" as I've called them, to my opinion, went about the investigation entirely wrongly and caused, based on what I've read and heard on several Indie groups/blogs I watch, a darkening of the blanket of negative opinion cast over all non-traditional authors.  I blame them for that.  I also blame them for leveling their verbal attacks against me just because I hadn't left *yet*.  Finally, I'm still ticked off that they'd attack my name, of all things. 

Still, TP authors over there--no offense ever intended.  Kids who attacked me and other TP authors who didn't leave quickly enough--plenty of offense intended.  If I'm incorrect that they're separate, and someone here is in both groups, your choice. 

[StephenHKing]

Folks, we have a very strict "What happens on [name of site] stays on [name of site]." Please don't bring outside drama here.  Or Betsy might give me permission to Force Choke the lot of you!

I appreciate the rule, but please don't allow me to be viciously attacked by name on this publicly-accessible forum without giving me a corresponding ability to defend myself here. 

[Julie Morrigan]

Stephen, I've tried to post enough information here about what has gone on (although it's far from all) to keep writers informed about something that is important to us all. As far as the people involved in finding stolen artwork are concerned - and I tracked down some of those images myself - we're a mix of authors, both TP and not, and artists. Some of those involved are new authors/artists, while others are long-established. And I don't think any of them ought to be referred to as 'kids', not because there's anything wrong with youth, but because it's being used as a derogatory term to try to deny those people the respect they deserve for standing up for what is right and having the courage to speak out against plagiarism.

I take issue with your statement that they have caused: '... based on what I've read and heard on several Indie groups/blogs I watch, a darkening of the blanket of negative opinion cast over all non-traditional authors.'

My experience has been quite the opposite. I have seen people, having learned some hard lessons, pick themselves up and start again. Some are contracting cover artists and editors, others are learning how to make covers and format content themselves. Still others are signing with other small, indie houses. All are moving forward wiser about the ways of publishing.

Finally, I can't see any evidence of you being 'viciously attacked' on this forum. There have been links to posts elsewhere and quotes from things that have been said, but all is verifiable and factual.

[StephenHKing]

I also have seen people picking themselves up.  I'm trying to do the same.  If you haven't seen any impact on our overall industry--people saying things like "I always new the small publishers/authors were crooks"--then I am glad for the circles you hang out in. 

Being a child has nothing to do with courage; in fact, sometimes it's the most innocent of people who show the most outward displays of courage.  To me, being an adult and a professional have to do with the way you exercise that courage.  I stand by my characterization, despite the fact that we clearly disagree.

I'm not sure why you believe that things which are "verifiable and factual" don't qualify as an attack, but so be it.  Have a wonderful day. 

[smiscandlon]

"I always new the small publishers/authors were crooks"

That's a shame, but once again, you are entirely misdirecting blame in this matter.  You imply in a previous post that the authors/artists who made this public have "caused" this "darkening of the blanket of negative opinion cast over all non-traditional authors".  Please don't lose sight of the fact that the one who "caused" this is Giovanni Gelati, through his acts of art theft and plagiarism.

[Julia Madeleine]

Stephen H King, perhaps a public apology to those writers you've offended and alienated by your comments would help. Just a suggestion

[Betsy the Quilter]

Folks, locking this thread while we discuss in the smoke-filled admin caves....

I recommend y'all step away from the keyboards...

Thanks,

Betsy
KB Moderator

**Update (from Harvey)- we've reviewed the thread and decided to keep the thread locked. Thanks all.