Westminster Dog Show?

[Amyshojai]

Here are a few Westminster pix from year's past:


Yorkie with handler during show by amyshojai, on Flickr


mastiff by amyshojai, on Flickr


CLUMBER SPANIEL by amyshojai, on Flickr


Standard white poodle in papers by amyshojai, on Flickr


Skye Terrier        by amyshojai, on Flickr


Newfoundland by amyshojai, on Flickr

[MichelleR]

Love the pics, and at least one reminds me of the saying about people looking like their pets.

[Sandpiper]

Standard white poodle in papers by amyshojai, on Flickr

Sorry, but that's why I don't care much for poodles.  The "hair cuts" look ridiculous.  Disgraces a poor dog.  It turns me off the breed.

[Leslie]

Sorry, but that's why I don't care much for poodles.  The "hair cuts" look ridiculous.  Disgraces a poor dog.  It turns me off the breed.

I think that poodles might be one of the more extreme examples of what "show dogs" look like vs. what dogs who live with non-show people look like. Monday looks just fine in her puppy cut which is what she'll be wearing for the rest of her life. I don't like all that foofy hair, plus I don't have hours every day to brush it. When we first met her she had sort of a foofy cut and looked ridiculous when she was running around and playing. Sort of like a toddler playing in the sandbox wearing an evening gown. LOL.

Dog-wise, Monday is terrific. She's smart and has tons of personality and pours her unconditional love on us 24/7. Remember what they say about judging a book by its cover...

L

[MichelleR]

Isn't the foof just an exaggerated version of a cut meant to keep the joints warm as they hunt? (And who doesn't think hunter when they think poo-dell?)

[Leslie]

Isn't the foof just an exaggerated version of a cut meant to keep the joints warm as they hunt? (And who doesn't think hunter when they think poo-dell?)

I didn't know that so thanks, Michelle, I've learned something new:

Early poodles were large dogs used as water retrievers, and it is because of this serious occupation that the fanciful-looking Continental trim evolved.

Poodles' coats were debilitatingly heavy when wet, so the dogs were shaved in the areas that didn't need protection from the cold water (like the hind end and the legs), with the ankles, chest, and head kept covered with hair. The Continental clip may appear silly to some (and has definitely given poodles an undeserved reputation as sissy dogs), but it has its origins in athleticism and hard work.

Poodles were also the most popular dogs in the US for years, which is probably why my parents had one (still trying to find the statistics. Will post when I do.). They are not number one anymore but still in the top ten.

L

[Jane917]

Those poodle cuts might look a little over-the-top to us folks that don't show dogs, but ya gotta admit, the poodles stride in the ring with pride. They scream, "look at me"........

Jack's groomer raises and shows standard poodles. When those dogs are out of the rings, they just want to be lap dogs like all the rest.

[DD Graphix]

Honey Poodles DEFINE metrosexual. There are some male standard poodles that absolutely rock the doo.

Poodles are seriously cool dogs, especially the Minis and Standards. A lot of the Standards are natural gun dogs and great swimmers. They have a huge mischievous sense of humor but can be serious guards. Incredibly intelligent. Minis in particular have few health problems and it's not at all unusual for Minis and toys to live way into their teens (don't buy the koolaid that says purebreds aren't healthy, it just ain't true).

Look past the pouf, and look at the head carriage and the steely look in the eye...

[N. Gemini Sasson]

I had my own grooming shop for a few years and had lots of poodles. Intelligent dogs, even tempered for the most part, met a few silly ones and they tended to be very long lived dogs. I liked them, all sizes.

[DD Graphix]

It is true that the show poodle puts the "Show" in dog show. It takes about 6 hours total to create the Continental poodle clip, and a true artist with scissors to do it. But there's a very real dog under the hair.

Now me, it's the breeds with very heavy beards/face hair I don't care for as much. All the food and gunk they get into their beards (not at Westminster of course!)

[Amyshojai]

Yep, there's "real dogs" underneath the coat, whatever it might be. And poodles (all sizes) definitely have been standouts at Westminster. You'll see them being shaved 30 seconds before they go into the ring!

Of course, you also see Yorkies in "papers" to keep their hair clean, and Basset hounds wearing ear snoods, etc. Ain't it grand, though, that there are so many shapes, sizes, breeds, attitudes, and aptitudes to fit ever dog lover's taste? 

[Pawz4me]

Looks like the WKC folks think Pedigree's adoption-focused ads are too much of a downer.  So they're dropping them in favor of Purina.

Linkage

[Amyshojai]

Yep, I saw that about Pedigree and Purina. Of course Purina already sponsors the big show in November. Betcha it'll be ProPlan (that's the one they push for breeders, I think). Bye bye to the yellow and blue...

[nogdog~6op6ou]

Yep, there's "real dogs" underneath the coat, whatever it might be. And poodles (all sizes) definitely have been standouts at Westminster. You'll see them being shaved 30 seconds before they go into the ring!

Of course, you also see Yorkies in "papers" to keep their hair clean, and Basset hounds wearing ear snoods, etc. Ain't it grand, though, that there are so many shapes, sizes, breeds, attitudes, and aptitudes to fit ever dog lover's taste? 

Well...up to the point where they have been bred more for an appearance to satisfy human tastes in exchange for increased health risks (increased hip dysplasia in certain breeds, sinus/nasal issues is those that have bred to have essentially no noses, etc.). I guess that's part of the reason I'm more drawn these days to working breeds that have been bred mainly to do a job, not just to look good -- though they all look good to me one way or another. (And note that the Standard Poodle, at least, is (was?) a working breed, with that thick, curly coat being intended to protect and insulate them in thickets and cold water.) Of course, my favorites are mutts that just look like dogs, not requiring me to make too great a mental leap to connect them to their lupine ancestors.

[DD Graphix]

Well...up to the point where they have been bred more for an appearance to satisfy human tastes in exchange for increased health risks (increased hip dysplasia in certain breeds, sinus/nasal issues is those that have bred to have essentially no noses, etc.). I guess that's part of the reason I'm more drawn these days to working breeds that have been bred mainly to do a job, not just to look good -- though they all look good to me one way or another. Smiley (And note that the Standard Poodle, at least, is (was?) a working breed, with that thick, curly coat being intended to protect and insulate them in thickets and cold water.) Of course, my favorites are mutts that just look like dogs, not requiring me to make too great a mental leap to connect them to their lupine ancestors.

Unfortunately you have a limited understanding of canine genetics and the role and incidence of genetic disease in dogs.

Dogs are a domesticated species, and as such, they are ALL prone to genetic disease. 99.9% of mixed breed dogs in this country come from purebred dogs, often not far back in the family tree. And hybrid vigor really doesn't work in dogs. Let's say you have a Poodle (since we're discussing them) and a Doberman and you breed them together to get a mixed breed puppy. The puppies from that litter will not get any genetic diseases unique to each breed. But they can and will get any disease shared by both parent breeds. So they may not get Sebaceous Adenitis (a skin disease of Poodles) or cardiomyopathy (a heart disease of Dobermans). But they can get hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, hypothyroidism and/or vonWillebrand's disease, all conditions shared by both parent breeds. And once those puppies are bred? All protection is lost, and any further generation can get any and all diseases of any of its ancestor breeds.

Responsible breeders, the huge majority of which show their dogs, work extremely hard to produce dogs which are not only beautiful but healthy with correct temperaments. It is a total myth that all purebreds are ill or that breeders are deliberately breeding deformities for the show ring. There are a few breeds that do have some real issues. Most do not. And your chance of getting a healthy, long-lived dog is actually probably greater if you go with a good breeder than with a random-bred mix which may or may not have healthy ancestors behind it.

That's not to diss mixes; they are amazing dogs. But they are not inherently "better" than purebreds and people who try to portray them as such do them a disservice. There are tons of mixes out there and they have now been welcomed in AKC in all working sports.

Finally, as someone who does actually do sport work with my dog, I want a dog where I can predict size, temperament, and health. That means purebred for me. My preference.

[Leslie]

I think that NogDog was making the point that some show standards are known to be not healthy for the dog. There was a long article in the New York Times a few months ago about bulldogs and all their health problems. It was brought up several times that just a few, minor changes would make the breed much healthier but because they are supposed to have a certain "look" there is a lot of resistance to making any changes.

Here's a link to the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/magazine/can-the-bulldog-be-saved.html


And here's another interesting article from today's paper. I read the book, The Cruelest Miles, last year. It was very interesting and I definitely recommend it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/sports/spirit-of-a-racer-in-a-siberian-huskys-blood.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

L

[DD Graphix]

A few breeds, including the Bulldog, really do have some issues. It's a pretty thorny ethical question though. ALL dogs are artificial man-made constructs (and yes, that includes mutts). That said, how far is too far? For me, a dog who cannot live a hardy healthy life and a dog who cannot breed or whelp without assistance is "too far." Yet for some of these breeds, changing that thought process is very difficult for breeders because they have to shift how they have learned to think about the breed.

Unfortunately as well, the public looks at those very few breeds with real issues and immediately extrapolates that all purebred breeds are unhealthy genetic monstrosities. And it's just flat untrue. The vast majority of responsibly bred purebred dogs are wonderful, happy, healthy dogs. While there are certainly some unethical breeders out there, there are also breeders doing it the right way.

[Amyshojai]

A few breeds, including the Bulldog, really do have some issues. It's a pretty thorny ethical question though....

Unfortunately as well, the public looks at those very few breeds with real issues and immediately extrapolates that all purebred breeds are unhealthy genetic monstrosities. ....

This. Also, the media is notorious for finding the absolutely most shocking, worst cases (because that makes for the best hand-waving news) and publicizing the heck out of it. Yes, there are some inherent problems within certain breeds, and they are to a great extent an artificial creation. But it's the responsible breeders who also have worked to identify problems within certain breeds or lines, and in some of these cases, get rid of (breed away) from those genetic issues.

[DD Graphix]

I don't know how many dogs are listed in the OFA databases now, but it passed 1,000,000 several years ago. The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) is a non-profit organization that helps breeders test for, and record results from, inherited canine genetic diseases. Those results are available to anyone to look at using their massive online search engine; it's the largest canine health database in the world. And the very fact that it is so huge speaks to the caring and commitment of dedicated hobby breeders who work extremely hard to both identify and eliminate genetic disease in their respective breeds. (http://www.offa.org)

[Amyshojai]

Live streaming on the website for some of the judging:

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/

[nogdog~6op6ou]

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to pick on breeders: just humanity in general for choosing to breed some dog varieties mainly to please our esthetics first with the dogs' well-being a secondary concern (if at all), much of this occurring well before modern breeding organizations with their codes of ethics came into being. Some is still done by so-called puppy mills and "casual" (uncertified?) breeders, who likely are only interested in cuteness or ferociousness (depending on their clientele) and not in what is best for the dogs, as compared to the serious, certified breeders who are probably in the minority when it comes to breeding, unfortunately.

For that matter, just compare the turkey bred to end up on your Thanksgiving table versus the wild turkey that Ben Franklin wanted as our national bird, or the sheep that we have dumbed down over the centuries until this could happen:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pysET6UvN60" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pysET6UvN60</a>

I guess the dogs have had it pretty good.

[MichelleR]

I can't feel good about a breed standard unless it values function as much as form. I think it's another reason why I love the herding group. With my beloved Shelties, it's a joy to see that herding instinct kick in and feel like they could put in a full day's work, if they weren't too busy counting little sheep in their heads. It's a wonder to see a healthy dog in motion, and if a standard discourages that over some physical affectation, it becomes grotesque.

I also think anyone who breeds needs to support rescue with some combination of time, money, and/or fostering.

[Sandpiper]

British documentary film -- Pedigree Dogs Exposed.

[Jane917]

Two of Jack's half siblings (same sire, Ch. Paquavele Enchanted) were entered this year.  This is what Jack thought of it all.



A pup from one of his kennel mates took Best of Opposite Sex (Champion Covington Paydirt).

[Leslie]

If I took a picture of Monday, she'd be just as interested as Jack in all this dog stuff. LOL.

Just finished the non-sporting group and Ian the Dalmatian won. My father grew up with Dalmatians so that's a fine choice in my book! The miniature poodle came in fourth.

Back in the hound group, the greyhound was passed over (as always).

My vote right now is on Ian for Best of Show. We'll see what happens between now and tomorrow night...

L