Thrown out by the gatekeepers

[Laura Lond]

Hey Lisa, you've got a movie deal! Who cares about some publisher? I'm surprised you even agreed to talk to them. 

[David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish]

Soooo...we all understand that if a reader doesn't like a book, it's their opinion, and bad form to publicly criticize them for it...but if it is a publisher or agent, it's all rah-rah-release the hounds? 

[Debra Burroughs]

Is that right, Lisa? You have a movie deal on one of them? Tell us about it, please!

[Mike McIntyre]

Soooo...we all understand that if a reader doesn't like a book, it's their opinion, and bad form to publicly criticize them for it...but if it is a publisher or agent, it's all rah-rah-release the hounds? 

I'm down with this.
Unless Lisa is okay with also calling out "reviewers."
Then I'm down with her, too.

[LisaGraceBooks]

Well that's just stupid. Don't you have a movie deal already for one of those books?

Phooey on them. It's not like your books haven't been available all this time - they could have read one before they even contacted you in the first place. Geez.   

Yes. Books 1 & 2 are being combined into a film. They are one complete story. http://www.motionpicturepro.com is starting perproduction immediately. They have rights to the first 2 books, and first right of refusal on the 3rd. Elaine P. English, an entertainment lawyer out of Washington D. C., represented me in the negotiations.
I was under the impression that some people (in marketing) read them and liked them. The acquisition team wanted to move forward with the deal and even sent me emails indicating they were sending me a contract. Then it moved to the next department "editorial review". That's where my books flunked.

[LisaGraceBooks]

Soooo...we all understand that if a reader doesn't like a book, it's their opinion, and bad form to publicly criticize them for it...but if it is a publisher or agent, it's all rah-rah-release the hounds?  

Reviewers on the whole are not paid for reviewing. They deserve some respect. Publishers and agents make money off of us, readers don't. I'm sorry you can't see the difference in a relationship with a reader vs. those who take a cut off of our work.

I'm not coming "down" on them. They pursued me. I didn't query them. I would think before they contacted me, they would have read the books first. Why would they seek me out?
Frankly, this is embarassing, and the reason I'm posting this is so others know that when they are approached by publishers, these things can still happen. I don't wan't them to be as naive as I apparently am. I'm not naming any names. Also, all the reasons (they don't want the books) were addressed in the first few meetings and in the marketing proposal they requested from me.

[Hugh Howey]

Write what your heart tells you to write. Publish it yourself. Enjoy the freedom and lack of hassles.

Man, I wish someone had convinced me to take this route years ago!

[jimkukral]

You don't need them anyway. Vanity publishing is just a bad business model.

[swolf]

At the very end she mentions that their publishing house doesn't represent supernatural YA.

Christian publishers do accept supernatural, but it has to be their version of it.

[Archer]

"Publishers and Agents make money off of us..."

Well, maybe. Publishers must first invest in us. It's their call whether they want to throw their money into the arena in support of our work. Period.

Agents don't make a dime if they can't secure a contract that the author will sign. Even then, they won't make that much $$ on the average author. Neither will the publisher. An agent may struggle on a client's behalf, using time, money, and expertise, without any reward whatsoever. Is it any wonder they are circumspect?

Sorry...I agree with David. The $2.99 investment a reader makes is no different with respect to this argument than the much larger investment of time, money, and effort expended by an agent or publisher.

IMO, 'calling out' ANYONE for not liking one's book should be limited to private conversations between family and friends. 'Drafts' folders are wonderful places for those scathing e-rants. Readers, Reviewers, Agents, Publishers...the guy who drives the bus at BEA...ALL have the privilege of rejecting my books, my bad make-up job, that horrid outfit I wore to BEA last year...

We also have the privilege of disagreeing with them, but I believe it's wise to keep those disagreements out of the public eye.   

 

[David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish]

Difference between agents, publishers, and readers?

A reader can read, and like, and give a 5-star review, to 10 books in a row. It doesn't matter. There's no shortage or limitations on 5-stars.

An agent and a publisher can only accept, and put their time and resources into, what, 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

But no, let's instead talk about how they clearly have no clue what the reading public wants, and start comparing ourselves to Shakespeare and Gone With the Wind.

[jackz4000]

LisaGrace, I think you are taking this too hard, too emotionally and way too personally. Somebody at the pub thought your book had potential, but not everyone agreed. It's decision by committee and someone or several didn't want to go with it. It happens all the time.

Just because an agent or publisher wants to consider your book does not mean they will buy it. You got an audition. No more and no less. They took a Pasadena on your book. No big deal unless you really thought they were going to buy. In which case you were a bit naive. Live and learn.

[LisaGraceBooks]

Jackz4000 and David Dalglish-

Did you guys even read the post? No names were mentioned. Nothing was taken personally. I mentioned that all the reasons they wouldn't want my books in the first place were discussed in the first several emails.

Which is why I never queried them. I knew I didn't meet their criteria. So why keep pursuing me and wasting my time just to basically give me the reasons I knew it wouldn't work in the first place?

Isn't the purpose of this forum to share our experiences so others aren't surprised when it happens to them?

I've been rejected on over eight different submissions 30+ times. Rejection doesn't bother me. Being pursued and wasting my time does.

No big deal unless you really thought they were going to buy. In which case you were a bit naive. Live and learn

If you'd read my post, you'd see I mentioned they had sent me emails  (after two acquisition meetings were held) that they were sending me a contract for my series. That was the reason for my post that yes, even after they say they will, and you've jumped though a bunch of hoops, it doesn't mean anything until the contract is in hand.

Difference between agents, publishers, and readers?

But no, let's instead talk about how they clearly have no clue what the reading public wants, and start comparing ourselves to Shakespeare and Gone With the Wind.

You clearly didn't read my post as that is not what I said or what it was even about. I wasn't comparing myself to anyone either. I stated how trends in literature change and listed examples everyone has heard of. It won't do to pull obscure examples as no one would  know what I'm talking about. All though, you're right. Most publishers don't have a good grasp on what the reading public wants. If they did, they could just back those winners, and there wouldn't be a marketplace for indie books at all.

[Terrence OBrien]

"Reviewers on the whole are not paid for reviewing. They deserve some respect. Publishers and agents make money off of us, readers don't. I'm sorry you can't see the difference in a relationship with a reader vs. those who take a cut off of our work."

An idea has to stand on its own merits whether expressed by an author, publisher, reviewer, agent, Cowboy Bob, or RinTinTin. It doesn't merit special consideration because of who packaged it or how much money is involved.

[LisaGraceBooks]

"Reviewers on the whole are not paid for reviewing. They deserve some respect. Publishers and agents make money off of us, readers don't. I'm sorry you can't see the difference in a relationship with a reader vs. those who take a cut off of our work."

An idea has to stand on its own merits whether expressed by an author, publisher, reviewer, agent, Cowboy Bob, or RinTinTin. It doesn't merit special consideration because of who packaged it or how much money is involved.

Absolutely. Which is why I never queried them in the first place. I knew I didn't meet their criteria. Which is why it was so weird that they took the process through several meetings over months, asked me to submit marketing proposals, etc...

[SeanBlack]

Unless I have misconstrued the situation isn't the point here that this is a publisher who approached Lisa rather than the other way round? Given that, it would seem reasonable that they had read her work and that at least at an editorial level decided that it would be a good fit for their list. If you get an approach from an agent or publisher I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption to make, so I can see where Lisa felt a little irritated.

Lisa, if you are getting approaches like this then the best idea might be to ask people to speak to the attorney who negotiated your film deal - assuming she's happy to do that. That usually sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

I get regular approaches about the movie rights to the Lock books and they all get referred to the agency in London who rep those rights, or if it's an American individual/company then I pass them over to CAA. Presumably an entertainment attorney could fulfill the same filtering function for you and you can save your energy for the important bit - the writing   Hope this helps.

[LisaGraceBooks]

Unless I have misconstrued the situation isn't the point here that this is a publisher who approached Lisa rather than the other way round? Given that, it would seem reasonable that they had read her work and that at least at an editorial level decided that it would be a good fit for their list. If you get an approach from an agent or publisher I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption to make, so I can see where Lisa felt a little irritated.

Lisa, if you are getting approaches like this then the best idea might be to ask people to speak to the attorney who negotiated your film deal - assuming she's happy to do that. That usually sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

I get regular approaches about the movie rights to the Lock books and they all get referred to the agency in London who rep those rights, or if it's an American individual/company then I pass them over to CAA. Presumably an entertainment attorney could fulfill the same filtering function for you and you can save your energy for the important bit - the writing   Hope this helps.

Thanks Sean for understanding. Yes, I was approached. That's why it was so frustrating. Yes, I think that's what I will do in the future is just refer them to Elaine P. English so they don't waste my time because she has agreed to represent me on book deals too. With the movie going into preproduction, I'm sure I'll get more offers. If not, I'll keep self-publishing because writing is what I want to do.

[skyrunner]

I find it very interesting that new devices are going to change writing somewhat.
The way stories are read, will change the way they are written.

Of course that's going to happen - it only seems logical that it will.
Touch pads are going to have a big influence - and reading books on smart phones will too.

The medium and the message will accommodate each other - it's called evolution isn't it ?

It doesn't happen overnight, but it will happen.

My two cents.
Cheers

[LisaGraceBooks]

I find it very interesting that new devices are going to change writing somewhat.
The way stories are read, will change the way they are written.
Of course that's going to happen - it only seems logical that it will.
Touch pads are going to have a big influence - and reading books on smart phones will too.
The medium and the message will accommodate each other - it's called evolution isn't it ?
It doesn't happen overnight, but it will happen.

My two cents.
Cheers

Hi skyrunner-

A year ago all of my fan mail came through email. In the last six months, most of my fan mail is arriving through phone, ipod, Kindles & tablets. This is huge. Two years ago this wasn't really possible. I'm hearing from readers as soon as they finish reading my books.

I've had informal meetings with teens (I stop them in the library, McDonalds, malls, etc...) and ask them questions about what they like to read and how they like to read. I've gotten some very interesting information that way.

[DonnaBurgess]

1. 12 publishers turned down Harry Potter
2. NBC canceled Star Trek
3. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team
4. Western Union refused to pay $100,000 for the original patents to the telephone (too expensive).
5. "No Civil War picture ever made a nickel."  a warning about "Gone with the Wind"
6. "Groups of guitars are on the way out."  Record executive, 1962.  Right before the Beatles arrived
7. Walt Disney was fired by a newspaper because he "lacked imagination."
8. Disney passed on Lord of the Rings film trilogy, which won 17 Academy Awards and earned $6 billion at the box office
9. Charles Schulz was rejected by Disney
10. Jack London accumulated 600 rejections for one of his stories

I love this list. BTW, thank goodness 8 & 9 worked out as it did. Disney would've ruined both 

[T.K. Richardson]

"Thrown out by the gatekeepers' but embraced by a movie deal... I'd take that any day. Congrats!

[Monique]

"Thrown out by the gatekeepers' but embraced by a movie deal... I'd take that any day. Congrats!

I remember you saying the budget was big, but can't remember if there was a range/target attached.

[LisaGraceBooks]

Hey Lisa, you've got a movie deal! Who cares about some publisher? I'm surprised you even agreed to talk to them. 

Thank you Laura

Yes, I'm excited about the movie. Especially now that it's moving into preproduction.

"Thrown out by the gatekeepers' but embraced by a movie deal... I'd take that any day. Congrats!

Thank you. I am excited.

I remember you saying the budget was big, but can't remember if there was a range/target attached.

The production company is in the middle of hiring a screenplay writer and doing all the first steps that happen when putting together a "major" movie. They're also finishing up the details for releasing their current project, a smaller budget indie film called "Old Fashioned".

[Bilinda Ní Siodacaín]

The production company is in the middle of hiring a screenplay writer and doing all the first steps that happen when putting together a "major" movie. They're also finishing up the details for releasing their current project, a smaller budget indie film called "Old Fashioned".

Let's just hope for Summit's sake that your movie is not coming out at the same time as their Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part 2

Bilinda

[emilyward]

It stands for American Booksellers Association. http://bookweb.org/index.html

And what are their criteria? I've been googling, but I haven't been able to find why they might reject you for characters kissing.

I'm just interested because I have a YA story I'm writing that has Christian-themes in a dystopian-type world and I'm wondering who might be interested in it since I'd like to try a publisher before deciding to self-publish. But it has kissing too and a cult, so I'm not sure if it would be accepted by the typical Christian publisher.