What are you willing to do (or give up) to be a successful writer? (new title)

[Carolyn Kephart]

When Wysard was at 99 cents in October, my Kindle ranking went to 290, not just in the Fantasy category but across the board. Needless to say, it felt good. (I owe Red Adept my thanks for those numbers.)

Then I upped the price, thinking I deserved more for the sweat of my brain. Sales tanked. I'm back to 99 cents for March, at least, and my numbers are hovering at 4 to 6 thousand lately.

Readers are always going to gravitate toward those books that have the traditionally-published, big-house-backed seal of approval. To answer the question posed in this thread's title, I have four other novels near completion, and I'm focusing on the most commercially plausible of them to send through the flaming hoops of the agent/rejection process. My ego can take it and I have nothing to lose...not even the price of stamps and envelopes in these blessed digital times.

Luck be with us all. I'm convinced it's mostly luck that matters in this business.

CK

[Joseph Rhea]

Joseph, would you mind sharing about this tracking program? I would like to do this too.

Kristie
I have been using NovelRank.com since Feb 1st. It is a completely-free Amazon Rank-tracking site - all you do is give it the link to your book and it starts tracking your hourly Rank. It starts the hour you submit your book, so it can't tell you what happened before that. I should also mention that it is a "public" site, in that anyone can look at your book's stats, and anyone can track anyone else's book, so if that bothers you, don't add your book there (though, I personally don't see any harm in this). Anyway, it plots your hourly/weekly/monthly/yearly data on a chart, and you can also download your numbers to an excel spreadsheet. I use it to plot both my Kindle version of Cyberdrome as well as the paperback. I like it a lot, although it is just one more thing to watch and obsess over...

[KristieLeighMaguire]

Thank you, Joseph. I added my Second Chances to NovelRank. As you said, something else to obsess over. I should be writing my next book instead.

[ellenoc]

To answer the question of the changed subject line of the thread - not a lot.  I started writing years ago, then I joined Rocky Mountain Fiction Writers, went to several conferences, and also joined one of their critique groups.  By doing all that, I learned what successful writers actually do other than write, and I was so put off I stopped writing for a long time.

What I saw was that getting published meant first of all trying to get an agent and publisher, not only with all the rejection that involves but with all the demands to change what you've written to suit the perception of what those people think it should be.  Even agents who liked my book were telling me to change the title, change this, that and the next thing in the very first conversation.  Then after 2 in our critique group did get deals, the successful one of the two (because he did these things), was (a) investing far more than his advance in publicity, (b) making cold calls to book stores all over the country asking them to carry his book, (c) traveling all over to writers' conferences, (c) traveling just as much for book signings.  He probably did more that I wasn't aware of as he left the group shortly after getting his deal. There isn't one of those things I can or want to do.

So it wasn't until I got my Kindle 2 years ago, joined several forums like this one, and began to realize that the ebook revolution was finally starting to roll (I got my first ereader in 1999), that I began to think there might be a place for me and my books.  That led me to go back to my mystery, Rottweiler Rescue, polish it up and publish it myself on Amazon in paperback and for the Kindle and on Smashwords in the other ebook formats.

The Kindle version is what is selling, and so far I'm delighted and think there may be a place for me in the Kindle author world.  My book has gotten as high as 1050 over all and has twice tipped into the top 100 in the amateur sleuth category, and I was happy to see it.  However, I'm not willing to give away years of work in order to see the book move into the top whatever.  I'm more than willing to do the kind of publicity things that can be done from home but am still not spending my life traveling to places I don't want to go, doing things I don't want to do, and I'm not in a financial position to put books out and take a loss in order to push them into people's faces.

I'm now busy working on the other book and 2/3 that I wrote before giving it up sometime ago and am feeling quite enthused about writing again for the first time in a long time.  I don't need to make a fortune from writing, but if it brings in a little supplemental income, I'll be a happy authorette.

[Greg Smith]

Last month I cracked the 1000 club a few times, the best that I saw was a brief trip into the top 500.  Things kicked into gear when I moved from $2.99 to $1.99. 

So far the feedback has been really good and I hope that continues.  (Latest review pasted below my name.)  Since it takes time to read the book (when it moves up through someone’s TBR stack) I expect more word of mouth as folks finish it.  Hopefully they’ll like it. 

Greg Smith
Final Price ($1.99)

“I may never shop for a car again,

March 3, 2010 Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
I debated between 4 and 5 stars. This book is so good that I may never shop for a car again.

The author puts the reader in a situation that they are all too familiar with and turns the world upside down. The car salesman goes bad and turns on his customers in such a sick and gruesome ways. You really get inside his head that by the time the book ends, you want nothing to do with the car buying experience. Or maybe you will shop differently the next time...

This book was a real page turner and worth the price of admission. Good Job Greg!”

[Joseph Rhea]

There have been some great stories so far, thanks for posting them!
I'm sure there are a hundred more (if our fellow authors are willing to share, that is...)

[Carolyn Kephart]

There have been some great stories so far, thanks for posting them!
I'm sure there are a hundred more (if our fellow authors are willing to share, that is...)

Oh man, don't get me started... I think I'll blog some of them, and spare this board.

CK

[tbrookside]

The title change of this thread means we have to ask: What constitutes success?

If the answer is, "I want to make a living off my writing, and ONLY my writing," I think we have to talk about that.

Because a great many traditionally-published authors don't make a living from their writing, and have to keep day jobs.

I get concerned when I see indie writings measuring themselves by the standard of "making a living", because that's a higher standard than that applied to traditional authors.  Joe's ebook sales and royalties are comparable to traditionally published authors in his genre [for a single book, at least], and I don't think we should set ourselves up to not consider that "success".  Because there are a lot of people out there who would sniff at Joe and say, "You're not a real author," when they aren't making any more money than he is - and you don't want to let that mindset infect your own.

[sierra09]

Success to me is seeing even a single sale on any given day. Last year when I published my first novel I honestly didn't expect it to sell and I mainly did it for myself. I sell more Kindle versions than paperbacks which is cool with me because I certainly don't do this to make a living. Everything I earn goes to help Mom anyway so it's more of a success for me to know that people do read what I write and in come cases get really frustrated when sequels take a year a come out. 

As for prices, all of my Kindle books right now are priced at $1.00 and I'll probably leave them alone. The sequel that's due soon since it is a bigger book I may go the $2.99 but haven't decided. I need to read the new rules and see what the mandatory price is now.

[ASparrow]

Defining success is the issue for me. Selling lots of books is not my personal gauge of success. 

Success to me means sharing a compelling and entertaining story and vision clearly to a broad spectrum of readers in a manner that resonates beyond the pages.

I have not yet succeeded in achieving my artistic goals in any of the three books I have completed or am currently revising, nor is it guaranteed that I ever will in any future books.  If I ever did manage to succeed at the artistic level I seek, I suspect that other kinds of success will follow, but that's just fantasy to me now.

As far as what I would do to reach financial success. I don't care about that stuff. I'm not at all rich, but the odds of being able to support my family solely through writing are so slim, I don't bother to think about it, to the point of not going out of my way to query agents.

[Carolyn Kephart]

As far as what I would do to reach financial success. I don't care about that stuff. I'm not at all rich, but the odds of being able to support my family solely through writing are so slim, I don't bother to think about it, to the point of not going out of my way to query agents.

I know authors in the fantasy genre with dozens of traditionally-published big-press books, who still have to hold down day jobs to make ends meet. Supposedly only 5% of all writers make an independent living from their craft. Hard odds.

Still, whenever I walk into a bookstore and see all those volumes on the shelves, I can't help thinking "Hey, there's room for me there somewhere."

CK

[Joseph Rhea]

So, here is what I think every Indie author should be doing, at a minimum, to get better sales, more readers, better reviews, moving up the Amazon ranks, or whatever you consider as your definition of "being successful" in writing:

Off the top of my head, and in my own order of importance (yours may vary), here is my list:

1) Before selling your book on Amazon, spend time working your manuscript through at least two workshops.
 - These can be either online or the face-to-face version. Don't trust what you wife/brother/mother or best friends say about your story. You need objectivity. You are the author, so you have none regarding your own work. Seriously, you don't. Neither does anyone you know. They like/love you and want to make you happy, and will lie to you to keep from hurting your feelings. You need objective assessment of your work and you will only get it from workshops. Try Authonomy.com, AuthorsDen.com, or Critters.org and preferably, try them all. When a majority of the reviewers like your work, you might be ready.

2) Make sure your grammar is perfect and there are no spelling errors in your final manuscript.
 - Okay, no one is perfect, even published authors, but make it very, very good and only put out your "final" draft. This is not a workshop now; this is a place of business. Act accordingly.

3) For Kindle books, triple-check your book after uploading to make sure their are no formatting errors.
 - It happens (it took me 6 uploads to get mine correct.) People are going to pay for your book, and they should NOT have to be the ones to tell you it looks like garbage on page 230. That's your job. You're the author AND the editor/publisher here, so do your jobs.

4) Work on your book description before uploading your title.
 - This is your potential reader's introduction to your story and it absolutely MUST draw them in. You only get one chance, don't blow it. Again get opinions from people who don't know you.

5) Your cover, even if you have a paperback version like me, must look good as a tiny 65 x 100 pixel icon.
 - This is the size most people will see it on Amazon (under someone else's book in the "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought..." section.) Remember, your book is not on a bookshelf in a store, it is just a small picture on Amazon, so make sure it stands out when it is small.

6) When you are on the forums, here or elsewhere, don't sell your book, sell yourself.
 - This one is very important and most "old timers" here already know the rule. Don't try to directly sell your book - everyone is doing that. Instead, talk about writing, talk about selling, talk about things that might interest other writers, and especially, talk about things that might interest potential readers. People will read your words, and say, "Hey, he/she sounds interesting. I wonder what their book is like." Bam! - you just made a sale without actually selling it.

and finally;
7) Be polite and kind and generous on the forums all the time, no matter what.
 - I know one author here who got so irritated at what someone posted on one of his self-promotion threads, he went on a rant and ended up leaving in a huff and never came back. Sell many books that way? Everyone gets trolls and just mean-spirited people from time to time--it's part of being on a forum. I like the way good stand-up comedians deal with hecklers - they find ways to turn the situation around, and either make fun of the heckler, or simply diffuse the situation by ignoring them. Stay above the fray. Be a professional at all times and people will want to read what you write - first in the forums, and later in your book.

Feel free to add to the list...

[David Derrico]

In that light, I have to say that I admire your dedication to the pursuit of writing, David, and being willing to give up what was obviously a well-paying career job to write full time. I would love to do that as well, but since I already have two small children (and a mortgage, two car payments, life insurance policies, etc.) I don't see that as an option anymore. Also, I actually like my career job (I'm a research scientist - oceanographer - be exact) and my ideal situation would to be able to do both part-time, like write 4 hours a day and then work the next 4 or 5. I think I got into writing hoping to be able to make enough money on the first book to be able to cut back to part-time while working on the 2nd book and so on. Understanding the real world of publishing now, I no longer have such lofty goals. I am making pretty good money on Kindle sales right now, but how long can one book last here? Without other books to throw into the mix, I'm stuck being a "one-trick pony" - or at least one-book author. I have 5 other projects outlined, including the sequel to Cyberdrome, but simply no time to work on them between career and family. Which is, of course, why I spend the few minutes of free time each day, here on the boards, talking about books instead of writing them...

It's definitely tough. If I already had kids, or hadn't put some money away, I wouldn't be able to take a couple of years to focus on writing now. It's disheartening that so few authors can make a living at it -- because clearly some authors are very talented and the world would be a better place if they were able to focus on their writing. My most sincere hope is that this e-book revolution will allow more authors to make a living doing what they're good at and what they enjoy. I am hopeful that, as e-books become more and more popular, royalty rates increase, and independent authors gain more and more sales (by producing quality work and providing readers with better, non-crippled products at reasonable prices), making a living at writing won't be some impossible pipe dream.

Also remember, we're not just writers now, we're writers, proofreaders, interior layout designers, cover artists, technical/formatting gurus, webmasters, agents, marketers, and promoters. Most indies wear most or all of those hats, and while writing can be a full-time job, writing PLUS all of that most DEFINITELY is.

[Joseph Rhea]

What am I willing to do to get Cyberdrome back in the top 1,000 club?

To recap:
The last time I was there was in December when I dropped the price down to $0.99 for three weeks (and made it into the top 500 actually.) The huge sales and additional exposure actually boosted sales of my paperback as well, which was nice.

After spending 2 months selling pretty well at a more reasonable price of $2.99, I dropped the price to $1.99 11 days ago just to see how much better the book would do. It made it down to 1,020 two nights ago, but the increase in sales still does not make up for the loss of royalties.

So, to continue this "experiment" I have decided to return to my "roots" and later this afternoon (tomorrow at the latest) Cyberdrome will go back to $0.99 for limited time. If anyone here just bought the book at $1.99 and feels "cheated," please get a refund today (it's easy) and then repurchase the book tomorrow at the lower price.

Hope to be writing from the "club" the next time we speak! (If not, well, that's why it's called an "experiment")

[David Derrico]

I will not go all the way down to $0.99 however, I do have my limits (and I've "been there /done that" as they say).

So, to continue this "experiment" I have decided to return to my "roots" and later this afternoon (tomorrow at the latest) Cyberdrome will go back to $0.99 for limited time.

Sorry, I just had to point that out to give you a little bit of a hard time.    But I actually understand exactly what you're going through. I definitely tortured myself debating back and forth over lowering my prices. And I still wonder, "What if I tried $1.99 or $2.99?" -- especially when I see other authors having success at those price points.

I'm actually always glad to see other people experiment, especially when they are kind enough to share their data with us. The more data points we have, the better we can all set prices to maximize readers and revenue.

For myself, I'm trying to keep the price stable for a while to get a nice solid baseline of sales data, and to see what else (other than changing price) works or doesn't work. It's definitely tempting to change the price, to try to do something to increase sales -- believe me, I know the feeling! Staring at the DTP report, willing the numbers to be higher when you click the "View Month-to-Date Report" link.    Thinking, "What can I do to help get the word out, or make it better for readers so they might give me a try? Should I change the description? Make an audio book? Lower the price? Re-vamp my website? Post on Authonomy, Shelfari, Kindleboards, etc.?"

My current plan is to probably keep my prices the same until I raise them to $2.99 in July for the 70% royalties. But, if I see enough data from people like you that shows $1.99 is a better price point...

Hey, having control over prices is one of the benefits of being indie, right? And perhaps, one of the curses as well...?

[EllenFisher]

Lowering prices seems to be working well for me.  I lowered my full-length romance from $1.50 to ninety-nine cents today, and it dropped to #2,514 in the Kindle store-- my best ranking so far.  My other indie romance dropped to #3,831, even though I didn't change its price.  It's nice that the books are selling, although that doesn't necessarily constitute "success."  At any rate, I don't know if the sakes will continue.  Next month I think I'll introduce my next romance at ninety-nine cents and see what happens. The only problem is, if it doesn't sell well, I can't go down from there!

[Sam Landstrom]

I've hit the Top 100 Club (with The List and Afraid) and the Top 1 Club (with SERIAL which is free and was #1 for several weeks--it's currently at #58.)

Hi Jack, thanks for the awesome post! You mentioned that SERIAL was free and a book you put up independently? How are you offering it free? I had mine free for a while through Mobipocket but Amazon put an end to free books using that outlet. Giving away your book for free is incredibly powerful. I don't have your following and only have one book, but I got it to #2 for a few days because I gave it away.

As to the general question posed in this thread, for me, exposure trumps all. Jack, if I could make what you're making, I'd reconsider, but I don't have enough books or history in the business to pull that off right now.

I've made about 3k total on my book which goes nowhere to compensate me for the time I put into the project. What did make it worth it was to write what I thought was a cool and original story with the knowledge that tens of thousands of people had downloaded it. Most of those downloads were for free or 1 cent. IMO, if you're like Jack and have a good list of books with a loyal following, it pays to strategize about price, but if you're like me and new to the game, forget about the money. Just get people to read your book!

[KristieLeighMaguire]

Congrats, Ellen, on your sales success when you dropped the price of your book. I know I had downloaded a sample previously and when I saw you had dropped the price I went ahead and bought it.

I have had some sales with my Second Chances over at Smashwords when I discounted it from $2.99 to $1.50 there for Ebook Week. Before that I had only 1 sale at Smashwords. My sales at Amazon good but not what I would call fantastic. I did have a ranking a couple of days ago at just a tad over 4000 which is my best yet.

I am very seriously considering lowering the price of Second Chances at Amazon and Smashwords to try to get more sales and more exposure. I have 4 other Kindle books out besides Second Chances and 5 in paperback as well so maybe it would help those books sell too.

I have a question for those of you who have dropped the price on your books? Do people who have purchased the book at a higher price get upset that the price has been lowered from what they bought it at? Or do you have any way of knowing this?

[Eric C]

Hi Jack, thanks for the awesome post! You mentioned that SERIAL was free and a book you put up independently? How are you offering it free? I had mine free for a while through Mobipocket but Amazon put an end to free books using that outlet. Giving away your book for free is incredibly powerful ...

Jack is a pen name for Joe Konrath, and Serial is from a major publisher. Only major publishers can offer free books on Kindle now is my understanding. I believe Joe had to talk his publisher into releasing that book for free.

Joe has an interesting post up at his website, see: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ and the second post from the top, "Whoa there, Ebook writer." I see that post as being related to this discussion.

[Sam Landstrom]

Jack is a pen name for Joe Konrath, and Serial is from a major publisher. Only major publishers can offer free books on Kindle now is my understanding. I believe Joe had to talk his publisher into releasing that book for free.

Joe has an interesting post up at his website, see: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ and the second post from the top, "Whoa there, Ebook writer." I see that post as being related to this discussion.

Thanks Eric, yeah, I knew Joe had publishing deals, but I thought he was publishing Serial independently for some reason. Now I re-read his post and didn't see anything about it being indie, so that's that.

Thanks for the blog post pointer. Pretty interesting. I used Joe's $1.99 sweet spot price for a while and it worked pretty well, but as he says, once the royalty rate goes up, the new sweet price will be $2.99. Since I can't give my book away for free anyway, I'll probably jump on that train too when it arrives.

[Eric C]

I used Joe's $1.99 sweet spot price for a while and it worked pretty well, but as he says, once the royalty rate goes up, the new sweet price will be $2.99. Since I can't give my book away for free anyway, I'll probably jump on that train too when it arrives.

Save me a seat.