An Echo in the Bone: Discuss Part Two here

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Part Two:  Blood, Sweat and Pickles

6.  Long Island

7.  An uncertain future

8.  Spring thaw

9.  A knife that knows my hand

10.  Fireship

11.  Transverse Lie

12.  Enough

13.  Unrest

14.  Delicate matters

15.  The Black Chamber

16.  Unarmed Conflict

17.  Wee demons

18.  Pulling teeth

19.  AE fond kiss

20.  I regret

21.  The minister's Cat

22.  Flutterby

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Heather asked me about the Lord John books because in Part One, the sections about John were confusing.  Made me realize that this is a Lord John book within a Jamie and Claire book.  There seems to be very little about Jamie and Claire compared to John and William.  I like that there's more about Ian and Fergus which I was hoping for. 

So, now we know something else William (too grown up for “Willie”) inherited from Jamie – seasickness. Other than that, I think his personality is mostly Geneva. No, I don't think he's a spoiled brat, although that might have happened if John hadn't raised him. He seems to be as impulsive as her and doesn't have Jamie's deep practical streak.

In Jamie's letter to Bree, he finally admits that he's not so young anymore, and he can fight better with his printing press. That became pretty obvious in the last book when he tried to run after the coach that was taking Claire away from him.

He also talks about taking Ian back to Scotland and wonders how they will react to him. I know Jenny and Ian will be overjoyed to see him, but I think they will all have trouble relating to each other. It's one thing to watch your child grow up and move away from you. It's another to lose him at 15 and not see him again for nearly 10 years, during which time he has been married, lost a child, fought in battle and killed men. The love is still there, but they are strangers to each other, not unlike when Jamie came back from the Lake District.

Back to Roger and Bree. It seems like Roger has lost who he is again. He was just adjusting nicely to the 18th century, and now he's back in the 20th. Bree's patience seems to be running thinner than usual.

When Jamie and Claire left Scotland, they felt as if they were going into exile, and Jamie wondered if he would ever see it again. Now, they are leaving America, and feel as if they are going into exile once again. Will they ever have a true home?

Jo and Kezzie and Lizzie have a new baby. Whew. I got a kick out of her exaggerating her pain to make them suffer. But it was sobering for Frau Wemyss to make the point that they might not be so lucky the next time with Claire gone. How much will change on the Ridge without her there? With Roger gone, there was no one to keep peace between the factions and with the Malva incident, Jamie lost his position as leader. I have the feeling the whole community is going to fall apart.

It seems John was right to send Willie away from NC for fear of his meeting with Jamie again. So far, he hasn't remembered Jamie as his friend, the groom, but something might happen to remind him. He hasn't made the connection with Bree, either, but she made an impression on him.

A lot of English soldiers deserted both during and after the Revolution, took up land and started families. William already has a plantation in Virginia. I wonder if he'll do the same. On the other hand, there's his cousin Dottie, whom he claims to have seduced. John doesn't believe him and I don't either. I think there's someone else in America she wants to be with (unsuitable, of course), and William is helping her elope.

Someone is looking for Fergus. I guess we're going to hear his story at some point. The obvious assumption is his real father is looking for him. I can't think of anything else, but I'm sure DG will come up with some convoluted twist or other.

Back to Bree and Roger. So, they have money from somewhere. Did they bring back 18th century artifacts and sell them?

It looks like their relationship is deteriorating again. Sometimes love isn't enough, and as we speculated many times, their marriage may not survive. And it looks like even Joe Abernathy can't see past Bree to Roger. Doesn't he have anyone to turn to? Bree acts like she wants him to be ordained, yet acts like it's his fault that she's Catholic.

Joe Abernathy suggests Roger write a book about North Carolina and the regulators. No, he can't write a history without sources and credentials, but he can write a novel. Anybody read any of Inglis Fletcher's books about North Carolina? I loved Queen's Gift about the early settlers in the Albemarle. Her North Carolina history is accurate, but she did take some liberties with English history.

I think Roger doesn't realize how bitter he is about Bree's accomplishments, or the fact that he's lost everything by following her into the past. Until he finds his place, there is no chance for them at all.

I guess I was wrong about Jamie planting the article about their deaths in the newspaper, but I was right about Arch Bug following Ian. He'll follow Ian all the way to Scotland, I think.

I was a little surprised after Fergus' despair over Henri-Christian being a dwarf, that he allows him to play the clown for a crowd.

I was even more surprised about Percy Beauchamp seeking out Claire to find Fergus. No way Jamie is going to get on a ship with that weasel when he knows he's after Fergus. At least I hope not. But you know their paths will cross again.

So, Neil Forbes rears his ugly-one-eared head again. Once he finds out Jamie isn't dead at all, he's likely to try something else to take his revenge.

Wonder why Phaedre's working in the tavern?

Fergus: “Then I grew older still, and discovered that, after all, it was true. I am the the son of a great man.”

Yes!! Tom Christie!!! I knew he wasn't dead. Jamie would have heard about it and agonized over telling Claire. Getting a little bold with Claire, though. Now we know it was him that placed the notice and why.

Interesting that he said he'd been in love with three women; a witch and a whore, a whore, and now Claire who was maybe a witch. Wonder who the second one was. I don't recall him mentioning another woman.

Honestly, I'm not finding William or his adventures at all compelling. He hasn't developed as a character for me, yet. Could be second generation syndrome, but I don't feel that way about Ian or Fergus. Even Germain and Jemmy are showing a lot of character.

So, Jemmy is telling stories about his life on The Ridge. I think Roger better home school him. I think he's right. Jamie and Claire are buried at Lallybroch. As soon as Bree thinks about doing a rubbing, we might find out.

Anybody else think the tramp hanging around might be William Buccleigh MacKenzie? After all, his mother was a time traveler.

So, Roger has proved that small things can be changed, like the date on the article about the fire. Looks like the explanation was deliberately misleading.

Roger's father could be a time-traveler? How shocking is that. Of course, they will cross paths at some point, right?

I love this dream connection between Jamie and Jemmy. Now Jamie and Claire know that the family is back at Lallybroch. And I just realized why Bree has money. She sold the house in Boston and probably had money from both her parents. If she put that in a bank, it would have been earning compound interest for 10 years. That's a lot of money.

[millie34]

On the other hand, there's his cousin Dottie, whom he claims to have seduced. John doesn't believe him and I don't either

William's story about having acted improperly with Dottie sounds like just that, a story.  They've got something up their sleeves.

Back to Bree and Roger. So, they have money from somewhere. Did they bring back 18th century artifacts and sell them?

Claire said that Bree had money,  she must have received an inheritance from Frank, which they used to buy Lallybroch.

Back to Roger and Bree. It seems like Roger has lost who he is again. He was just adjusting nicely to the 18th century, and now he's back in the 20th. Bree's patience seems to be running thinner than usual.

Bree is a strong woman, who takes control of things.  She doesn't have much patience with Roger.  She's still using Jamie as the yardstick of what a man should be.  She's not very understanding of Roger not knowing who he is yet.  I hope they can hold it together until he finds himself.

Ian really went the extra mile for Herman and Vermin.  Ian and Jamie both are really good Samaritans.  They may not be church goers, but they really do know what it means to love thy neighbor.

So, Roger has proved that small things can be changed, like the date on the article about the fire. Looks like the explanation was deliberately misleading.

I thought the error on the date was due to the flaw in the typeset.  The setters just didn't bother to change it.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Ian really went the extra mile for Herman and Vermin.  Ian and Jamie both are really good Samaritans.  They may not be church goers, but they really do know what it means to love thy neighbor.

But it was really weird that he left the girls with Mrs. Sylvie. 

I thought the error on the date was due to the flaw in the typeset.  The setters just didn't bother to change it.

Right, the original article said January 21, which was an error in the typesetting.  However, the date on the article must have been changed to the correct date.  No matter what happened, I think the original explanation was weak, and they never came right out and said the date changed in the article they saw in the 20th century.  Leap of faith, I guess.

[millie34]

But it was really weird that he left the girls with Mrs. Sylvie. 

He probably knew no one else would take them.  Mrs. Sylvie did it for the money.  I hope she can handle them.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

He probably knew no one else would take them.  Mrs. Sylvie did it for the money.  I hope she can handle them.

    I doubt it   

[Shandril19]

this is a Lord John book within a Jamie and Claire book. 

Agreed.  And I have a harder time with Lord John and Williams' narration than with other characters.  Of the two, I'd rather listen to William, I think, but they're definitely the hardest for me to pick up with.

Anybody else think the tramp hanging around might be William Buccleigh MacKenzie? After all, his mother was a time traveler.

Roger's father could be a time-traveler? How shocking is that. Of course, they will cross paths at some point, right?

I'm hoping that the tramp isn't a time traveler, but I think you may be right.  Both of those conceits feel a little overused to me now.  Encountering other time travelers was well used with the first few books, but between Donner in BOSAA and now these hints, I'm starting to feel like if Gabaldon doesn't have an idea for tension, she throws more time travel in.

In this book, I'm drawn more to Roger/Bree's life at Lallybroch than what's happening in the 18th century.  Poor Roger is so very lost again and so infuriatingly narrow in his views - although at least he has the good grace to realize it.  I hope he does find his way.  I think in many ways, the return to present times may be the harder transition.  At least in the 18th century, no one's looking for documentation that proves where you've been or what you've done.  Step out of life for 7 years now and what do you go back to?

With the letters, dreams, and the MacKenzies presence at Lallybroch, it does seem very much that they're still flowing along together rather than disjointed.  It's nice.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Agreed.  And I have a harder time with Lord John and Williams' narration than with other characters.  Of the two, I'd rather listen to William, I think, but they're definitely the hardest for me to pick up with.

I like John, normally.  His part in this seems kind of slip-shod.  Nothing really cohesive.  As for William, I didn't get a sense of who he is.  I realize he's only 19, but he is an Earl and a soldier, so presumably he's more mature than your average 19 year old.

I'm hoping that the tramp isn't a time traveler, but I think you may be right.  Both of those conceits feel a little overused to me now.  Encountering other time travelers was well used with the first few books, but between Donner in BOSAA and now these hints, I'm starting to feel like if Gabaldon doesn't have an idea for tension, she throws more time travel in.

Or someone being kidnapped. 

With the letters, dreams, and the MacKenzies presence at Lallybroch, it does seem very much that they're still flowing along together rather than disjointed.  It's nice.

Yes, I like this device.  I would hate to lose Roger and Bree altogether, and there's that connection between Jamie and Jem.  Do you think that when Jem grows up he might want to travel back to see Jamie and Claire?

[millie34]

 

  Do you think that when Jem grows up he might want to travel back to see Jamie and Claire?

Would they still be alive? And if so, they'd be really old.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Would they still be alive? And if so, they'd be really old.

Since DG is taking the series through 1788, we know they will be alive then.  That's about 11 years away.  Jem is 8 now, so he would be 19.  Claire would be about 72 and Jamie 68.  Approximately.  Yes, I would guess they would still be alive.  But where would they be?  Jem seems to think they are buried at Lallybroch.    Spoiler tag in case anyone hasn't gotten there yet.

[imallbs]

Tom Christie is alive?!  Nobody stays dead in these books!  I don't know why this surprised me.  Of course I have to go to work so I can't find out what happened until tomorrow    

I swear, I wouldn't be surprised to have Black Jack show up at my door on Halloween - with his head tucked under his arm.  And that leads to - I expect to see Alex and Mary's son show up in this or the next book.  Since Black Jack didn't raise him, I have hopes he is a decent person.  Did they have a son or I'm I guessing?

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Tom Christie is alive?!  Nobody stays dead in these books!  I don't know why this surprised me.  Of course I have to go to work so I can't find out what happened until tomorrow    

I never thought Tom Christie was dead.  Jamie would have heard about it and he would definitely have told Claire.  He knows not to hold stuff back from her. 

I swear, I wouldn't be surprised to have Black Jack show up at my door on Halloween - with his head tucked under his arm.  And that leads to - I expect to see Alex and Mary's son show up in this or the next book.  Since Black Jack didn't raise him, I have hopes he is a decent person.  Did they have a son or I'm I guessing?

Has to be a son.  The name Randall was passed down to Frank.  As for the rest my lips are sealed, but yes, everyone shows up sooner or later. 

[tlshaw *Padded Cell 511*]

A lot of the people and things regarding Lord John seem to be taken from the Lord John series. I am wondering if I need to read the books, but from all the the comments, I don't think I would enjoy them. But, it also points out that John has more to him that I thought from the earlier books. I would have never thought he had been a spy. He sure came a long way from the 16 year-old kid that tried to kill Jamie in the woods in Scotland.

Tom Christie is still alive! Will we see Steven Bonnet again too? I was surprised that he placed the death notice because of his feelings for Claire. I am glad he did not die for Malva's murder though.

Back to Roger and Bree. Bree seems to have an ability to adapt to whatever circumstances. Roger, on the other hand, lacks this ability. He takes himself very seriously, and is always trying to be careful of other people. He was just settling into a role in the 18th century he could handle, and then goes back to his own time, and who he was before going through the stones no longer fits.

The dreams that Jamie has about Roger, Bree and the children, do you think Mandy can see him? We all know that it was Jamie that stood outside Frank and Claire's rooming house in Scotland, and then he saw the family when Jemmy wanted to call him on the phone. Jamie's spirit seems to have the ability to move through time, and Frank at least saw him, so doesn't it make sense that Mandy could see him? Just a thought for discussion.

I am dying to know why Percy is looking for Fergus. I don't think Fergus is his son, but maybe the son of someone important? I loved Fergus' comment about discovering he was the son of a big man - Jamie.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

A lot of the people and things regarding Lord John seem to be taken from the Lord John series. I am wondering if I need to read the books, but from all the the comments, I don't think I would enjoy them. But, it also points out that John has more to him that I thought from the earlier books. I would have never thought he had been a spy. He sure came a long way from the 16 year-old kid that tried to kill Jamie in the woods in Scotland.

I trying to get myself to reread Lord John and the Private Matter, but I haven't had a problem falling asleep lately.  (yawn)  Apparently, Percy Wainwright appears in LJ and the Brotherhood of the Blade.  Intriguing title, but I don't find Percy a very compelling character either.  I think as you read Echo, you'll pick up all the info you need to piece things together about the past. 

Tom Christie is still alive! Will we see Steven Bonnet again too? I was surprised that he placed the death notice because of his feelings for Claire. I am glad he did not die for Malva's murder though.

All that backing and forthing about Bonnet's body and the speculation and not actually being able to tell it was him, had me very nervous.  Of course, a bullet in the ear is pretty final. 

The dreams that Jamie has about Roger, Bree and the children, do you think Mandy can see him? We all know that it was Jamie that stood outside Frank and Claire's rooming house in Scotland, and then he saw the family when Jemmy wanted to call him on the phone. Jamie's spirit seems to have the ability to move through time, and Frank at least saw him, so doesn't it make sense that Mandy could see him? Just a thought for discussion.

Yes, I do.  It's not said in the book specifically, but there is an incident toward the end, although not related to Jamie, that makes me believe that might be true. 

I am dying to know why Percy is looking for Fergus. I don't think Fergus is his son, but maybe the son of someone important? I loved Fergus' comment about discovering he was the son of a big man - Jamie. 

Oh, I loved that, too.  You'll see my comments on Percy/Fergus later on.  Some interesting speculating, I think.  It takes quite a while before it comes out. 

[PraiseGod13]

I am so grateful that we have the interesting themes going on with someone searching for Fergus and Tom Christie reappearing because I'm not enjoying the emphasis this book has on Lord John and William/Willie.  I just don't think it rings true that Willie would not have remembered Jamie as the groom who meant so much to him when he was young.  I certainly remember the people who were important in my life when I was that age..... and Jamie's physical characteristics make him "more than memorable" to everyone.  I have never cared for the Lord John character so I'm finding that I have to force myself through all of his chapters in this book.  William/Willie's character has just never been developed enough for me to like or dislike him so I'm having the same difficulty with all of the chapters about him too.
     I find the dreams that Jamie has about Bree and family really interesting.  I'm really surprised that Claire hasn't expressed her unhappiness/jealousy that she doesn't have the same happen to her.  I do think Mandy can see Jamie.
     And Roger's father, a time traveler??  What an interesting new twist!  I hope we hear more about this later.  Roger continues to make me frustrated and confused.  For a guy who "had it together" and knew what  his goals were enough to get his education and teach classes at a university.... he has certainly lost his way and now seems weak to me.  Watching his life at this point is almost painful as we see Bree once again adapting and thriving.
     The mysterious tramp at Lallybroch is an intriguingly - slightly scary - twist to the story.  I'm not sure at this point who I think it is.
    The whole Herman/Vermin episode left me wondering what the purpose of that was - other than it brought Arch back into the picture briefly to let us know he's following Ian (like we already didn't know/think that).  But I thought it was totally strange that Ian took them to Mrs. Sylvie.  Right, they can be maids..... wink-wink.
     Like the rest of you.... my very favorite part of Part 2 was Ian saying he's the son of a great man.  Doesn't get any more touching than that!!
     On to Part 3.... and I'm hoping for less Lord John & Willie..... Roger to get his life together..... more info on whoever is searching for Fergus.... and more on life at Lallybroch........

[tlshaw *Padded Cell 511*]

I find the large sections about Lord John and William slightly distracting, but am waiting to see how these play out in relation to Jamie and Claire.

I found the story of Herman and Vermin fun to read. I also thought it rather strange that Ian would take them to Mrs. Sylvie, but then again he had no other options about where to take them.

Like you, PraiseGod, I am wondering who the tramp at Lallybroch is. I am guessing it will be someone very unexpected.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Like both of you, I'm not liking John and William in this.  We know both of them in relation to Jamie and Claire, and I think DG has lost sight of that.  I'm thinking shorter books, more Jamie and Claire.  But there's only one more to go, and I'm sure it will be more of the same.  Although I have to say that after reading this one, the next one should be a humdinger. 

I said who I think the tramp is ... William Buccleigh MacKenzie.  I thought so as soon as I read about him.  All we heard about Buck was that he left the county.  He's too important a character in relation to Roger for him to just disappear.  Roger ran into him twice (on the ship and at Alamance) and knowing DG, he'll have to run into him again.  Also he's responsible for a life-altering event in Roger's life.  I think Roger is entitled to a little bodily harm in return.  And, since his mother, that time-traveling witch, Gellie Duncan, won't be coming back, Buck makes a good substitute.

Disclaimer:  This isn't based on what I have read, but on what I thought when the tramp appeared.  I knew he had to be important, so I set myself to thinking and Buck is who I came up with.

Not saying I was right or I was wrong.  Just saying ...

Herman's parting shot to Ian was too funny. 

Arch is no longer amusing.  He's a vengeful wretch and Jamie should take him down.  Not saying if he does or not ... Just saying ...

[PraiseGod13]

[quote author=Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' link=topic=13889.msg277553#msg277553 date=1255283703
Arch is no longer amusing.  He's a vengeful wretch and Jamie should take him down.  Not saying if he does or not ... Just saying ...

[/quote]

Gertie.... I totally agree with you.  Time for Himself to take care of this situation!  If Arch follows them to Scotland..... Jamie needs to say, "Enough!!"  I really haven't ever seen this as being Ian's response.... he's thinking more along the line of, "Arch has a justified reason to be angry since it was his wife who was killed".  Jamie, as the protector of the family, is the one who needs to end Arch's wanting revenge for the death of his murdering wife who was attempting to commit murder again.
     I also think you're right and DG has somehow lost the main core of this series.  To me, she chose to create a spin-off series for Lord John to feature him and make his story the main emphasis.  It gave me, the reader, the choice to not read the Lord John series because I've never liked the character.  Now, in this book, she's making Lord John and his "son" William the main characters..... and I'm so disappointed.  If I wanted to read this much about Lord John, I would have read his series.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

     I also think you're right and DG has somehow lost the main core of this series.  To me, she chose to create a spin-off series for Lord John to feature him and make his story the main emphasis.  It gave me, the reader, the choice to not read the Lord John series because I've never liked the character.  Now, in this book, she's making Lord John and his "son" William the main characters..... and I'm so disappointed.  If I wanted to read this much about Lord John, I would have read his series.

I said that in my review on Amazon and so did others.  It dragged the book down for me.  Don't give up on it, though.  Things get pretty hair-raising. 

[PraiseGod13]

I definitely won't give up on Echo..... I've loved this series for years and fully intend to "see it through".  I'm just feeling like DG has let down those of us who are avid Outlander (but not Lord John) fans.  It's kind of like when one of your favorite authors writes a hundred pages of filler into an otherwise excellent book with no purpose other than to make it longer.  That "waters down the integrity" for me and is so disappointing.

[danfan]

Heather asked me about the Lord John books because in Part One, the sections about John were confusing.  Made me realize that this is a Lord John book within a Jamie and Claire book.  There seems to be very little about Jamie and Claire compared to John and William.  I like that there's more about Ian and Fergus which I was hoping for. 

I'm getting frustrated. I wouldn't mind more Lord John but I'm bored with a lot of the Willie chapters. They are getting a bit long & tiresome, and I am ashamed to admit I skipped some.
I like Willie, I'm just not that interested in him & if his tale is relevant, I wish she'd just get on with it.

He also talks about taking Ian back to Scotland and wonders how they will react to him. I know Jenny and Ian will be overjoyed to see him, but I think they will all have trouble relating to each other. It's one thing to watch your child grow up and move away from you. It's another to lose him at 15 and not see him again for nearly 10 years, during which time he has been married, lost a child, fought in battle and killed men. The love is still there, but they are strangers to each other, not unlike when Jamie came back from the Lake District.

Yup, and not like there can exchange phone calls or even quick letters!

Back to Roger and Bree. It seems like Roger has lost who he is again. He was just adjusting nicely to the 18th century, and now he's back in the 20th. Bree's patience seems to be running thinner than usual.

Back to Bree and Roger. So, they have money from somewhere. Did they bring back 18th century artifacts and sell them?

It looks like their relationship is deteriorating again. Sometimes love isn't enough, and as we speculated many times, their marriage may not survive. And it looks like even Joe Abernathy can't see past Bree to Roger. Doesn't he have anyone to turn to? Bree acts like she wants him to be ordained, yet acts like it's his fault that she's Catholic.

Joe Abernathy suggests Roger write a book about North Carolina and the regulators. No, he can't write a history without sources and credentials, but he can write a novel. Anybody read any of Inglis Fletcher's books about North Carolina? I loved Queen's Gift about the early settlers in the Albemarle. Her North Carolina history is accurate, but she did take some liberties with English history.

I think Roger doesn't realize how bitter he is about Bree's accomplishments, or the fact that he's lost everything by following her into the past. Until he finds his place, there is no chance for them at all.

I'm thinking Roger needs to find the Standing Stones again!

Yes!! Tom Christie!!! I knew he wasn't dead. Jamie would have heard about it and agonized over telling Claire. Getting a little bold with Claire, though. Now we know it was him that placed the notice and why.

Interesting that he said he'd been in love with three women; a witch and a whore, a whore, and now Claire who was maybe a witch. Wonder who the second one was. I don't recall him mentioning another woman.

His wife, his daughter, Claire.

Anybody else think the tramp hanging around might be William Buccleigh MacKenzie? After all, his mother was a time traveler.

WOW Could be!!

[danfan]

I'm confused about the confusion over the fire article.

Original article said they'd die January.
Typeset was wrong and said ....?

Roger brings copy of article to Bree and they said dates changed and if they checked back, the one in the book would have changed too? 

I'm lost.

[danfan]

Also meant to say that I am enjoying the letters to Bree & Roger. Yes, how can they be so patient???  I'd have torn through them. Nice to keep them in the story and I *DO* hope Gabaldon doesn't treat Roger so bad in this one! I'll be too upset if he has any more tragedy!

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I'm confused about the confusion over the fire article.

Original article said they'd die January.
Typeset was wrong and said ....?

Roger brings copy of article to Bree and they said dates changed and if they checked back, the one in the book would have changed too? 

I'm lost.

The original explanation in the last book of the dates being wrong was totally lame.  Then when Roger finds the article again, there was no real explanation of what he found.  So yes, be confused, be very confused. 

I'm just taking four ibuprofen and forgetting it. 

I'm getting frustrated. I wouldn't mind more Lord John but I'm bored with a lot of the Willie chapters. They are getting a bit long & tiresome, and I am ashamed to admit I skipped some.
I like Willie, I'm just not that interested in him & if his tale is relevant, I wish she'd just get on with it.

I was very frustrated with William, too.  He's not only reckless and impulsive like his mother, he seems to be totally inept.  Except for physical characteristics, I don't think he's gotten anything from Jamie.  Ian is more Jamie than William.

His wife, his daughter, Claire. 

I didn't think of that. 

[imallbs]

Part 2
Men taking their spring bath.  Not only a nice site but sure to improve the conditions in that crowed cabin. 
I have to agree with Claire “There are few things  more enjoyable than sitting in relative warmth and comfort while watching fellow human beings soused in cold water.  If said human beings present a complete review of the nude male form, so much the better.”  especially that last part

I'm really not liking the Lord John parts which is sad because I like the character.  I hope that the parts about William become more interesting.  One of my complaints about earlier books was the lack of development of some of the characters (and the near loss of Fergus which seems to be continuing).  Maybe all this stuff about William will make him more interesting later in this book and the next one.  With that hope, I am reading diligently through those parts and not so diligently through the Lord John parts.
I am looking forward to Jamie, Claire and Ian returning to Scotland.   Jenny and Ian need to see Ian even if he doesn't stay.  I doubt he will stay, he is really an American, much more than Jamie or Claire.  Jenny will probably know what Ian needs to heal and move on with his life.  Of course that's when Arch will probably show up.  I am not liking the Arch Bug parts at all.  He is a mean, vindictive old man who needs to die. 
Enjoying the Roger and Bree parts (more Roger than Bree).  Roger really did give himself up to the 18th century and he had nothing to come back to.  He couldn't just go back to his job, none of his friends know about time travel.  At least Bree has Joe Abernathy.  Roger will find his way though and it will be very satisfying to read about it. Of course they way I feel about Roger does not have anything to do with picturing Nathan Fillion as Roger (I picked Nathan Fillion because I like Roger).

I think it was worse watching Claire and Jamie leave the Ridge than watching them leave Lallybroch.  Lallybroch was never their home together; Fraser's Ridge was something they built together; and they had to leave Adso and the pig and Clarence.  These animals had a lot more character develpment than many of the people on the Ridge.  If They make it back to the Ridge, I wonder what they will find there?  I disagree that Jamie has lost his position as leader.  It wasn't as strong as with the men from Ardsmuir but he is still a natural leader and some deference was shown to him. 

I wonder more about Bobby and about Lizzie and the twins.  Without Claire there to take care of Lizzie, what will happen to her.  And without Jamie to protect Bobby will someone see the brand and do something to him?

"A lot of English soldiers deserted both during and after the Revolution, took up land and started families. William already has a plantation in Virginia. I wonder if he'll do the same”.  I hope so.  Jamie has lost so much, I think it would be great if William ends up in America to raise a family.  I would like to see Lord John there too, but that is less likely.

It looks like Fergus is going to have something more to do with the story.  I've missed him.  It seemed out of character for him to allow Henri-Christian to perform for the crowd.  It is obvious that has been going on for a while.  And what about teaching Germaine to pick pockets!   

Phaedre sure came and went fast in this book.  Was that just to show us she's ok or will she play a bigger role in the intelligence gathering part of the book; a tavern is a good place to pick up a lot of information.

Fergus: “Then I grew older still, and discovered that, after all, it was true. I am the the son of a great man.”  One of the best lines in all of the books.

Back to Roger and Bree.  It's great that Jamie has a connection with Jemmy (and maybe Mandy).  He and Claire will know what happens to them over time.  I wonder why he doesn't have a connection with Bree anymore?   

“Anybody else think the tramp hanging around might be William Buccleigh MacKenzie? After all, his mother was a time traveler”.  I thought he would be a time traveler but hadn't made the connection with William Buccleigh MacKenzie.  It makes sense it would be him.  I got the feeling he and Roger were not done.  And Roger's father, a time traveler.  I would like to see him meet his father but I getting enough of the time travelers.  AND I don't need any more characters to keep track of.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I think it was worse watching Claire and Jamie leave the Ridge than watching them leave Lallybroch.  Lallybroch was never their home together; Fraser's Ridge was something they built together; and they had to leave Adso and the pig and Clarence.  These animals had a lot more character develpment than many of the people on the Ridge.  If They make it back to the Ridge, I wonder what they will find there?  I disagree that Jamie has lost his position as leader.  It wasn't as strong as with the men from Ardsmuir but he is still a natural leader and some deference was shown to him. 

I will miss the white sow.  She seemed to know friend from foe.  Or maybe not.  She seemed to think most were foes ... or at least potential food. 

"A lot of English soldiers deserted both during and after the Revolution, took up land and started families. William already has a plantation in Virginia. I wonder if he'll do the same”.  I hope so.  Jamie has lost so much, I think it would be great if William ends up in America to raise a family.  I would like to see Lord John there too, but that is less likely.

John did spent a lot of time at Mount Josiah.  I think it's easier to keep his secret there than it is in England where probably a lot of people know, but haven't told ... yet.

It looks like Fergus is going to have something more to do with the story.  I've missed him.  It seemed out of character for him to allow Henri-Christian to perform for the crowd.  It is obvious that has been going on for a while.  And what about teaching Germaine to pick pockets! 

 

There's so much going on.  I think maybe we'll see more of Fergus in the last book.  The emphasis seems to be more on John, William and Ian.  Not even Jamie and Claire.

Phaedre sure came and went fast in this book.  Was that just to show us she's ok or will she play a bigger role in the intelligence gathering part of the book; a tavern is a good place to pick up a lot of information.

What I don't understand is that after she was freed, she had 10 days to leave the Colony or be enslaved again.  That point was made in Breath, although I don't think it was in relation to Phaedre.  It sounded as if she was employed at the tavern, not working as a slave. 

Fergus: “Then I grew older still, and discovered that, after all, it was true. I am the the son of a great man.”  One of the best lines in all of the books.

Absolutely.  In Voyager, when Jamie gave Fergus his name, I was so happy for him.

Back to Roger and Bree.  It's great that Jamie has a connection with Jemmy (and maybe Mandy).  He and Claire will know what happens to them over time.  I wonder why he doesn't have a connection with Bree anymore? 

 

I think the children are more open to that kind of connection.  When you become a grandparent, your children are involved with their own families and leave their parents behind.  You get much closer to the grandkids.  That didn't happen on the Ridge because they were all living in very close quarters.

“Anybody else think the tramp hanging around might be William Buccleigh MacKenzie? After all, his mother was a time traveler”.  I thought he would be a time traveler but hadn't made the connection with William Buccleigh MacKenzie.  It makes sense it would be him.  I got the feeling he and Roger were not done.  And Roger's father, a time traveler.  I would like to see him meet his father but I getting enough of the time travelers.  AND I don't need any more characters to keep track of.

It seems like this has now become a time-travel series.  With everyone jumping around from one time to another, you never have to lose anyone to death.  "Oh, I miss my father or mother, so I'll just pop back 20 years or so and sit down for a cup of tea and a visit."

[danfan]

It seems like this has now become a time-travel series.  With everyone jumping around from one time to another, you never have to lose anyone to death.  "Oh, I miss my father or mother, so I'll just pop back 20 years or so and sit down for a cup of tea and a visit."

LOL I've always seen it as a time traveling story, albeit less so at times, but often Claire (and Bree & Roger) makes time comparison's so it's hard to forget.
Don't forget though, they can't time travel within their own lifetime... oh that reminds me of something to write in the part 6 section...

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

LOL I've always seen it as a time traveling story, albeit less so at times, but often Claire (and Bree & Roger) makes time comparison's so it's hard to forget.
Don't forget though, they can't time travel within their own lifetime... oh that reminds me of something to write in the part 6 section...

Outlander itself is not a time travel book.  Time travel is the trigger.  But now with everyone popping back and forth and more and more time travelers entering the story, it's now a central element. 

No, they can't travel in their own lifetime, but I could scare my parents to death by traveling back to a year before I was born.