Kindle #s: Traditional Vs. Self Publishing -- Blog posting by JA Konrath

[pidgeon92]

I came upon this interesting blog posting by JA Konrath via another blog..... I think it contains some very useful information for independent authors.

Kindle Numbers: Traditional Publishing Vs. Self Publishing

This is the blog posting I read that summarizes some of the points in the above article:

Publishing Revolution? J. A. Konrath, Open Road are stirring up one

[MariaESchneider]

as a regular reader of his blog, I can say that it's probably worth your while to read down further after the post at the top--he's doing some interesting experiments with the Kindle books he has.  He's always been very helpful when it comes to posting information about the publishing business, his books and so forth.  His "The List" is a great read as well.

[Ricky Sides]

What an interesting business model. I decided to test that model for a few weeks. I was planning a price increase on four of my five book peacekeeper series moving them from $3.00 to $3.99 at the end of the month. However after reading the article I opted to test that model and lowered my price to $2.00 for books 2-5. Book 1 is still at the introductory price of $1.00. At the end of the month I'll report back in as to whether I stand at $2 or move to the aforementioned $3.99.

Lowering them that much froze them for 24 hours.

[LeeGoldberg]

I thought you might be interested in this post about Kindle Publishing from my blog (http://leegoldberg.typepad.com)...

My friend Joe Konrath, who inspired me to put my out-of-print novels on the Kindle, has posted a fascinating and informative account of his Kindle ebook sales and royalties. He compares how the Kindle versions of his Hyperion-published books are doing compared with his "self-published" Kindle titles. Here's an excerpt, but I recommend you read the whole post (http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2009/10/kindle-numbers-traditional-publishing.htm)

   My five Hyperion ebooks (the sixth one came out in July so no royalties yet) each earn an average of $803 per year on Kindle.
   
   My four self-pubbed Kindle novels each earn an average of $3430 per year.

   If I had the rights to all six of my Hyperion books, and sold them on Kindle for $1.99, I'd be making $20,580 per year off of them, total, rather than $4818 a year off of them, total.</p>

   So, in other words, because Hyperion has my ebook rights, I'm losing $15,762 per year.

   Now Hyperion also has my print rights, and my Jack Daniels books are still selling in print. But they aren't selling enough to make up the $15,762. Especially since all of them aren't regularly being stocked on bookstore shelves.
   
   According to my math, I'd be making more money if my books were out of print, and I had my rights back.
[...]Ebook rights began as gravy. I can picture a day when the print rights are the gravy, and authors make their living with ebooks.</p>

Yes, it's still far off. And yes, print publishing is in no danger of going away anytime soon.

But I don't think I'll ever take a print contract for less than $30,000 per book, because I'm confident I could make more money on it over the course of six years than I could with a publisher over six years.

I wouldn't take this as a rallying cry to turn away from NY publishers and rush to the Kindle. Joe is a special case. Before "self-publishing" his Kindle titles, he'd already established himself with a series of hardcovers and paperbacks from major NY publishers. He also did a 500-store, multi-state book-tour and attended countless conventions. Joe selling thousands of ebook editions of his previously unpublished work is a very, very different situation than an unpublished writer hoping to accomplish the same feat.

And Joe himself acknowledges that fact in a later post:

I do not think that ebooks are able to replace the exposure, or money, you'd get with a print publisher.

To All New Authors: JA says try the traditional route first. Find an agent. Land a deal with a big NY house. Ebooks aren't there yet.

I'd hate to think some writer gave up on their print aspirations because of something I've said on my blog. I suggest you keep up the agent search. While I have no doubt others will be able to sell as many ebooks as I have, and probably many more, I still haven't made anywhere near the money I've made by being in print. Plus, everyone's situation is unique, and no writer should compare themselves to any other writer.


As for myself, my Kindle sales are still going strong, though not Konrath-strong.

THE WALK has sold 1760 copies in 4 months @ $1.99 each, for a royalty of $1204.

THREE WAYS TO DIE has sold 236 copies in 4 months @ $.99 each, for a royalty of $82

MY GUN HAS BULLETS has sold 254 copies in about 3 months @ $1.99 each, for a royalty of $175

BEYOND THE BEYOND has sold 69 copies in about 3 months @ $1.99 each, for a royalty of $48.30

I've also got out-of-print editions of TELEVISION SERIES REVIVALS, UNSOLD TV PILOTS, and my four 357 VIGILANTE novels that have been released on the Kindle at various times over the last four months.

All told, my combined Kindle royalties from June 1 to 11:23 pm Oct 13, are: $1750.

It's not enough to make me follow Joe's example and turn away from anything less than a $30,000 advance from a major publisher, but I'm very pleased. It's hardly a fortune, and clearly the lion's share of the royalties are from just one book, THE WALK, but it's found money. And it's gratifying to me to see THE WALK, which was out-of-print, on track to reaching more readers, and making more money for me, in a Kindle edition than it ever did in hardcover.

[Betsy the Quilter]

Wow, really interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts and Joe's.

Betsy

[MariaESchneider]

Thanks Lee!!

[bardsandsages]

I thought you might be interested in this post about Kindle Publishing from my blog (http://leegoldberg.typepad.com)...

My friend Joe Konrath, who inspired me to put my out-of-print novels on the Kindle, has posted a fascinating and informative account of his Kindle ebook sales and royalties. He compares how the Kindle versions of his Hyperion-published books are doing compared with his "self-published" Kindle titles. Here's an excerpt, but I recommend you read the whole post (http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2009/10/kindle-numbers-traditional-publishing.htm)

   My five Hyperion ebooks (the sixth one came out in July so no royalties yet) each earn an average of $803 per year on Kindle.
   
   My four self-pubbed Kindle novels each earn an average of $3430 per year.

A have to wonder if we are comparing apples to apples here, however.

First, is he subtracting the cost of his marketing, sales, etc from his Kindle revenues?  The $803 per year on the Hyperion books is a "true net".  Authors don't pay for proofreaders, editors, cover art, marketing, sales support, distribution, etc, etc, etc.  Whereas a self-publishing author foots all of those costs himself.  And even if he is performing all of these jobs himself (which I doubt) there is the cost of his time, which if these numbers are going to be truely compatible should be accounted for.

Second, would his four self-pubbed books be doing as well were it not for the established reputation he earned by first going through a traditional publisher?  Stephen King could self-publish a book and sell a million copies based on name recognition, but would he have sold them if he had self-published Carrie instead of going through a normal publisher?

I think numbers thrown around like this are a bit dangerous, because the lack of true transparency in what they actually represent gives a lot of authors false ideas of profit potention.

[LeeGoldberg]

I agree with you. It would be a big mistake for an unpublished writer to believe they can have the same success that Joe has had on the Kindle platform. In general, I believe it's a HUGE mistake for an aspiring writer to self-publish...but at least doing so on the Kindle is free. My advice is that fiction writers should NEVER pay to publish...you will lose your money and not gain the professional or popular recognition that you seek.

Lee

[Eric C]

A have to wonder if we are comparing apples to apples here, however.

First, is he subtracting the cost of his marketing, sales, etc from his Kindle revenues?  The $803 per year on the Hyperion books is a "true net".  Authors don't pay for proofreaders, editors, cover art, marketing, sales support, distribution, etc, etc, etc.  Whereas a self-publishing author foots all of those costs himself.  And even if he is performing all of these jobs himself (which I doubt) there is the cost of his time, which if these numbers are going to be truely compatible should be accounted for.

Second, would his four self-pubbed books be doing as well were it not for the established reputation he earned by first going through a traditional publisher?  Stephen King could self-publish a book and sell a million copies based on name recognition, but would he have sold them if he had self-published Carrie instead of going through a normal publisher?

I think numbers thrown around like this are a bit dangerous, because the lack of true transparency in what they actually represent gives a lot of authors false ideas of profit potention.

Your second point is discussed by Konrath on his blog. The first point I don't think he mentions.

Ebooks are only about 1% of the market, as I recall. What happens to Konrath's calculations if ebooks become 10% of the market over the next couple of years? (I for one would not be surprised if they did.)

[Chrismeeks]

This is an interesting discussion, and I'm pleased to see Eric, above, commenting because Eric, your book "Crack-Up," is an example that's different from Konrath or Stephen King. While you don't have the name recognition created by a series of published books, you are creating a name for yourself with your novel on Kindle. With an initial great review from Red Adept, and plenty of people buying and saying good things about your book, it seems to have found the rare chain reaction. Word-of-mouth has created sales. You brought your book to Kindle when your agent couldn't place it, and you tried it here without even offering a print version of the book, which I've found fascinating. Because this has happened only over the last couple months, you may not have even received a first check yet.

If I understand your goals correctly, they are not unlike mine: get enough interest and numbers on Kindle, and perhaps your agent can interest a big publisher the way Boyd Morrison was able to get a two-book deal with Simon and Schuster. This may be the publishing model in the future, to prove your worth through ebooks and then publishers can cherry-pick from the lists.

My first novel, "The Brightest Moon of the Century," came out in print earlier this year and had some help through Barnes and Noble's Small Press Department, a division in New York that gives some marketing help to small books it likes. Even so, sales have slowed now, and I'm bringing it to Kindle this week, now that I've discovered Kindle. My two short story collections (whose covers are below), have received wonderful attention and sales here. At times "The Middle-Aged Man and the Sea" has been listed in the Top 5 of short story collections, right behind Jumpa Lahiri's bestselling "Unaccustomed Earth." I haven't received a first check yet, but I'm already convinced of the importance of the Kindle market.

Now that my wife brought home a Kindle and I've tried it out, I now understand how it mirrors the reading experience with printed books. It's the weight of a book with a page the size of a book, and it looks like ink on a page. Yet with search features, it has a few options better than a book.  In fact, I went back to my short story collections and added hyperlinks to the stories. For "The Brightest Moon of the Century," I learned how to add photos that are in the print addition. (The secret is to put them in a Microsoft DOC file not HTML as I was trying and having the photos filtered out. Converting from PDF files didn't work well at all.)

This discussion also interests me because this is the very topic I'm moderating at the AWP convention in Denver in April. My thoughts of what we'll cover changes by the week. Kindle will certainly be a part of it.

--Christopher Meeks

[Kristen Tsetsi]

My advice is that fiction writers should NEVER pay to publish...you will lose your money and not gain the professional or popular recognition that you seek.

Lee

Self-publishing shouldn't be confused with vanity publishing - some vanity presses (not to be named) will charge a certain amount to publish, "edit" (*cough*), and print a certain number of copies of a book, and along with that they promise things that won't be an issue because your book isn't likely to get to a place where those things (like bookstore returnability) will be necessary.

On the other hand, you can put out your own book using a POD distributor for very low cost and market it yourself. True - you won't get MAJOR recognition the way you would if your book were ever picked up by a large publisher (because who has that kind of money to market, who has the branding, BUT a large publisher?), but if your book is truly good, and if you  market it well, you can certainly get it recognized in the circles you're hoping to attract.

There's a fascinating discussion about this (in which J.A. Konrath participates) at Backword Books, if you're interested.

[rho]

well as someone who has authors I love with out of print books I want - I hope this works in my favor for the out of print books at the very least   Guess I will keep writing my favorite authors requesting that the out of print books be put on Kindle

[LeeGoldberg]

Self-publishing shouldn't be confused with vanity publishing - some vanity presses (not to be named) will charge a certain amount to publish, "edit" (*cough*), and print a certain number of copies of a book, and along with that they promise things that won't be an issue because your book isn't likely to get to a place where those things (like bookstore returnability) will be necessary.

On the other hand, you can put out your own book using a POD distributor for very low cost and market it yourself. True - you won't get MAJOR recognition the way you would if your book were ever picked up by a large publisher (because who has that kind of money to market, who has the branding, BUT a large publisher?), but if your book is truly good, and if you  market it well, you can certainly get it recognized in the circles you're hoping to attract.

There's a fascinating discussion about this (in which J.A. Konrath participates) at Backword Books, if you're interested.

I read the comments at Backwords and I agree with my friend Joe. It's cringe-inducing to read the embarrassing and often idiotic responses to his intelligent,  honest remarks. Most of those commenters are deluding themselves. Many of them are obviously bitter at having their work consistently rejected by real publishers and can't accept that maybe it's because their work sucks...or, to be more charitable, is non-commercial. They twist themselves into pretzels rationalizing the money they've spent on self-publishing and the lack of significant sales, critical attention, or recognition. Selling five POD books at a single local bookstore, and being told by family and friends and "Red Adept" that you're a swell writer, is not an argument for the viability of self-publishing. Nor does it make you critically acclaimed. Nor is it a reason to delude yourself into thinking you are a "published author." If all they care about is getting their writing into the world, and not making any money at it, fine... then they should distribute their work as PDFs for free on their blogs (or Scribd, Smashwords), or for a pittance on the Kindle, and stop pretending, and trying to convince themselves, that they are "published" authors. They are not. 

Lee

[Chrismeeks]

Lee, I love Joe's blog, and his statistics give a sense of where publishing is going and the possibilities of making a living as a novelist. There's a New York Times article at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/books/14fried.html?_r=2 that gets into this new publishing trend by looking at what Jane Friedman, former president of HarperCollins Publishers is doing after she stepped down. She's started a digital publishing company that packages mostly out-of-print books by well-known names. If these other authors were as adept as Joe, they could probably make more money by making Kindle versions themselves.

Still, Ms. Friedman offers a service, and she says that the digital form “is going to be the center of the universe... We really think that what we’re going to do is to help transform the industry, which is built on models that we all know are broken.”

As for the back-and-forth with Joe on the Backword Books thread, I did not sense bitterness on anyone's part. When faced with some of the truths that Joe offered, some of the writers seemed to read Joe as arrogant, which is not the way I took what he said. This is to say, I'm seeing both sides. Joe worked hard to get where he is, and he's offering facts as he sees them. He's not bragging, just giving facts. The average self-published book still seems rushed-to-print, and it's hard to defend most books that come out of Lulu or iUniverse as literature.

That said, those of us at Backword (I'm a member there) have banded together because literary novels are a very tough sell to publishing houses. They want the sales of "Water for Elephants" or "The Time Traveler's Wife," but they, like movie studios, can't tell which books will do it. All they know is that they cannot publish many literary novels anymore. Thus, those of us interested in writing literary books as opposed to genre books have to find new paths. My agent at Dystel and Goderich in New York received dozens of positive rejections on my latest manuscript, for instance. Many editors told him that my novel had them laughing--it was a fun read--but they didn't know how to market it if they were to publish my book. Thus, I'm trying to assist my agent by creating a platform independently.

It's clear overall few people get rich from being a novelist. We do it for other reasons.

[LeeGoldberg]

literary novels are a very tough sell to publishing houses. They want the sales of "Water for Elephants" or "The Time Traveler's Wife," but they, like movie studios, can't tell which books will do it. All they know is that they cannot publish many literary novels anymore. Thus, those of us interested in writing literary books as opposed to genre books have to find new paths. My agent at Dystel and Goderich in New York received dozens of positive rejections on my latest manuscript, for instance. Many editors told him that my novel had them laughing--it was a fun read--but they didn't know how to market it if they were to publish my book. Thus, I'm trying to assist my agent by creating a platform independently.

I mean no offense or disrespect, but that's a lot of rationalizing....and not a lot of fact. There are a lot of literary novels published every day, some do well, some don't. There's a lot of "commercial fiction" published every day, some do well, some don't. Publishers never know which books will sell, and which won't. Your comment about WATER FOR ELEPHANTS and TIME TRAVELERS WIFE assumes the publisher knew for certain they would sell. They didn't. No more than they knew GARGOYLE would flop (they thought it would be huge). So that rationalization doesn't hold...not that it was honestly credible to start with.

Real publishers are still publishing literary novels. They just aren't publishing yours. That's blunt, I know, but that's the truth. the rationalizations may make you feel better about it, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

The market for ALL books, not just literary novels, has narrowed (the same is true for movies and tv shows, another field in which I toil). But good books will still get published. For example, my brother Tod's collection of very literary short stories, OTHER RESORT CITIES, was just published this week and he's on a national book tour financed by his publisher at this very moment. If nobody is buying literary novels, imagine how small the market is for collections of literary short stories...and yet, he's on a book tour. What does that tell you?

You mention that your book got "dozens of positive rejections." I'm sorry, but a positive rejection is nothing but a polite "we are not interested." They don't want your book. Period. If they can't market your book, that is a serious problem. And it's code for lots of things...bad writing, poor plotting, unsympathetic characters, cliches, boring prose, whatever. But what they are saying is, they don't think your book is publishable or something they can publicize effectively. And if a major publisher can't market it, the odds of you having any better luck with a self-published POD edition that few, if any, bookstores will stock and that few, if any, reputable reviewers will review, and that will have limited distribution, at best, is even slimmer. Yes, the publishing business is changing, but we are a long, long way off from POD self-publishing being the way to success or a wide readership...if ever. (Yes, there will be one or two exceptions....but that's exactly what they are, exceedingly rare exceptions). 

I am not saying this from some exulted position -- I may be a published author of dozens of books, but I also have had books rejected that are sitting in my drawer right now. Yes, I got "positive rejections," but I am honest enough to know what that really means....the books are unsaleable. In some cases, after a time, I've gone back and looked at those manuscripts and realized the editors were right...and saw the flaws I couldn't see before...and am thankful I wasn't foolish enough to invest money in self-publishing them anyway in the hope of being "creating a platform."

Lee

[pidgeon92]

From my limited perspective as a reader only, I can say now that I don't care who publishes a book, whether it comes directly from the author, or from a large publishing house. A year ago my attitude was different, but paradigms are changing quickly.

Without a doubt, some of the best novels I've read this year are from independent authors. I'm sure these authors had good editors working with them. Beyond that, I don't think they had a lot of marketing behind them; I came across these novels through the threads here and from e-book blog postings. I think with good, cheap viral marketing a completely independent author with a good story and good editing can make a decent living right now, and things are just going to get better for them.

[Chrismeeks]

I mean no offense or disrespect, but that's a lot of rationalizing....and not a lot of fact. There are a lot of literary novels published every day, some do well, some don't. There's a lot of "commercial fiction" published every day, some do well, some don't. Publishers never know which books will sell, and which won't. Your comment about WATER FOR ELEPHANTS and TIME TRAVELERS WIFE assumes the publisher knew for certain they would sell. They didn't. No more than they knew GARGOYLE would flop (they thought it would be huge). So that rationalization doesn't hold...not that it was honestly credible to start with.

Real publishers are still publishing literary novels. They just aren't publishing yours. That's blunt, I know, but that's the truth. the rationalizations may make you feel better about it, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

The market for ALL books, not just literary novels, has narrowed (the same is true for movies and tv shows, another field in which I toil). But good books will still get published. For example, my brother Tod's collection of very literary short stories, OTHER RESORT CITIES, was just published this week and he's on a national book tour financed by his publisher at this very moment. If nobody is buying literary novels, imagine how small the market is for collections of literary short stories...and yet, he's on a book tour. What does that tell you?

You mention that your book got "dozens of positive rejections." I'm sorry, but a positive rejection is nothing but a polite "we are not interested." They don't want your book. Period. If they can't market your book, that is a serious problem. And it's code for lots of things...bad writing, poor plotting, unsympathetic characters, cliches, boring prose, whatever. But what they are saying is, they don't think your book is publishable or something they can publicize effectively.

Lee

Lee, I take no offense because after meeting with my agent and seeing the rejections, some of them indeed were highly positive. If my book went beyond the initial editor to have an in-house discussion with others including marketing people, then it was close. I can't say it was bad writing if it grabbed my agent in the first place and made it as far as it did. Optimist that I am, I think of how John Steinbeck's first novel was rejected 200 times, but finally someone took a chance on him. I'm not saying I'm Steinbeck--just that being rejected a few dozen times isn't the worst thing in the world. You may be right though: there may be something there I or my agent don't see. I may bring it to Kindle at some point and try it out and maybe you or others with Kindles will go for it or not.

Yes, every publisher is cutting down, but some publishers were not even looking at literary novels for a while. With the publishing industry in turmoil, the old route of getting an agent and then getting published does not seem to be the only route anymore. As Joe says, "I urge you to try the traditional route first. Find an agent. Land a deal with a big NY house. Ebooks aren't there yet." You can't blame me for trying, can you? If my agent still believes in me, I shouldn't pack it up because, as you suggest, I should look at my rejections as there's "...bad writing, poor plotting, unsympathetic characters, cliches, boring prose, whatever. But what they are saying is, they don't think your book is publishable or something they can publicize effectively."

Maybe I'm not being honest enough, as you say, but I've gotten this far not only publishing hundreds of articles, but also having plays produced (the last most recently this year in Los Angeles), many short stories in literary magazines, and books published because I believe in my stories. If I don't, who will?

[AnnaM]

Nobody here got rejected. Like me they were accepted by one publisher -- Amazon. Amazon gave me a publishing platform and  a distribution channel (Kindle Store). Unlike other publishers, they gave me control over title and cover art and pricing. They gave me some marketing tools, but it's up to me to develop and use them.  They drive readers to my bookshelf, but my work must be compelling enough for those consumers to make the purchase.

What's to be bitter about?  I'm making money . . . not heaps (yet), but this new medium (ebooks) is growing, and the potential is there.  My guess is that Amazon is making a good chunk of change off of indie publishers . . . the bestsellers are now loss leaders (see article below about price wars with Walmart's online store).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091016/ap_on_re_us/us_wal_mart_book_price_war

[Betsy the Quilter]

I think there's truth to be found in many of the posts here no matter the perspective.  I have to say, I have read some ebooks that I found on Amazon where it appeared the author woke up one day and thought, "I think I'll write a book today" and then published it without any critical thought, proofreading, editing or feedback from anyone else.  At the same time, from what I've read about publishing, I can't agree that the simple fact of rejection means that a book is not good enough.  It very well may not be good enough, and in most cases that may be the reason, but there may also be other reasons why it was rejected.  And like Verena, I don't really care where the book comes from if it's a good read, and I'll try indie authors I've never heard of in search of a good book.  And I've found them.

So thanks, I think this is a great discussion, I look forward to reading more!

Betsy

[pidgeon92]

^^^ Absolutely agree. And crummy writing and crummy formatting are two great reasons to always sample before buying a book, no matter who wrote/published it.

[LeeGoldberg]

Yes, every publisher is cutting down, but some publishers were not even looking at literary novels for a while. With the publishing industry in turmoil, the old route of getting an agent and then getting published does not seem to be the only route anymore. As Joe says, "I urge you to try the traditional route first. Find an agent. Land a deal with a big NY house. Ebooks aren't there yet." You can't blame me for trying, can you? If my agent still believes in me, I shouldn't pack it up because, as you suggest, I should look at my rejections as there's "...bad writing, poor plotting, unsympathetic characters, cliches, boring prose, whatever. But what they are saying is, they don't think your book is publishable or something they can publicize effectively."

Maybe I'm not being honest enough, as you say, but I've gotten this far not only publishing hundreds of articles, but also having plays produced (the last most recently this year in Los Angeles), many short stories in literary magazines, and books published because I believe in my stories. If I don't, who will?

I am not saying you should pack it in or stop believing in yourself. That's certainly not how I handle rejection. But you also have to be realistic and pragmatic. I don't believe that spending money to make your unpublished manuscript available for sale POD is a wise, practical, or worthwhile move for your career or your writing. If I was you, I'd stick the book in a drawer for now and move on to your next book. And then when that one is done, and being shopped around, right another. that's how you move on, that's how you don't give up. I don't know a single successful novelist who doesn't have a few manuscripts they weren't able to sell. That's part of being a writer. Paying money to have your unpublished stuff printed in something resembling a book so you can feel better about yourself might help psychologically, but it's bad business and, 9 times out of ten, bad for your career as well.

Lee

[LeeGoldberg]

Lee, this has been a fascinating thread and I've enjoyed it very much, but I think your statement is too harsh. Frankly, even with my 1-2 sales a day, I consider myself a published author. I put a hell of a lot of work into my book, and even though only a handful of people will ever see it, I'm proud of it. And yes, I'm asking 99 cents for it, since having people actually pay money, even pocket change, gives me a little ego boost that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

You may consider yourself a published author -- i may consider myself the sexiest man alive -- but that doesn't make it so. You are not a published author. You're a guy who has printed his own manuscript (or put it in ebook format).  There's a big difference between you and somebody who actually is a published author. In your heart of hearts, you know that, too...or you wouldn't be striving to become one.

Lee

[LeeGoldberg]

From my limited perspective as a reader only, I can say now that I don't care who publishes a book, whether it comes directly from the author, or from a large publishing house. A year ago my attitude was different, but paradigms are changing quickly.

Without a doubt, some of the best novels I've read this year are from independent authors. I'm sure these authors had good editors working with them. Beyond that, I don't think they had a lot of marketing behind them; I came across these novels through the threads here and from e-book blog postings. I think with good, cheap viral marketing a completely independent author with a good story and good editing can make a decent living right now, and things are just going to get better for them.

"Independent authors?" Is that the aspirational, PC term for self-published authors now? (The equivalent, I suppose, of aspiring writers who insist on calling themselves "pre-published"). Sorry, I'm not buying in.

Yes, publishing is in flux, but so far the only people making money off self-publishing are the vanity presses and POD houses. The paradigms aren't changing as fast as you would like to believe they are, or in the ways you would like them to. Ebooks make up a very, very small percentage of overall book sales...the POD sales barely even register (the vast majority of POD fiction titles are sold to the authors and their narrow circle of families and friends). I would be interested to know how many POD authors are making a "decent living" off their work...and how much money you consider "a decent living" to be. How many of these POD authors, for instance, are making even $10,000 off their books (after recouping what they spent on printing, formating, etc.).** 

I don't believe things are going to get better for POD authors...if anything, I believe the narrowing of the publishing industry is going to make it even harder for self-published writers to get noticed...or accepted...by an ever-shrinking reading audience. One problem is that most of the stuff is unmitigated crap. I'm glad that you've found so much good stuff to read among self-published works...that has not been my experience, or the experience of "typical readers" i know who've tried self-published work.

** - Here are some sales numbers from iUniverse. Granted, they are five years old, but they will give you a peek at how the POD business works. Out of  18,000 books iUniverse published in 2004, only 83 titles sold at least 500 copies and a mere 14 showed up on the shelves of Barnes & Noble. Here are some more stats:

2004
18,108: Total number of titles published
14: Number of titles sold through B&N's bricks-and-mortar stores (nationally)
83: Number of titles that sold at least 500 copies
792,814: Number of copies printed
32,445: Number of copies sold of iUniverse's top seller, "If I Knew Then" by Amy Fisher

2003
15,028: Total number of titles published
7: Number of titles sold through B&N's bricks-and-mortar stores (nationally)
76: Number of titles that sold at least 500 copies
700,930: Number of copies printed
10,186: Number of copies sold of iUniverse's top seller, "The Sweater Letter" by David Distel

Lee

[plumboz]

Lee,


I'm not sure why people who have made a mark in traditional publishing seem to get their hackles up when it comes to any discussion about other ways of getting ones work into the light of day. Is much of what is self/vanity published really bad? Probably. Is much of what is traditionally published pretty damned bad, even if it is professionally edited and has a nice cover? Oh yeah.

There are new opportunities opening up for writers just as they have opened up for musicians. The sorting out will be done, the winnowing will occur, the crap will settle to the bottom, those lacking tenacity will fade, a few remarkable talents will emerge and life will go on.

Alan Hutcheson
author of Boomerang
it's a buck for Kindle
$9.89 in paperback
Readers on at least three continents who apparently don't give a crap it didn't come with a traditional publisher's blessing
Most of the paperbacks sell through the Paypal link on my blog. And it's fun to send out personally autographed copies to folks I don't know. They ask for the wackiest things for me to write on the title page.

[Chrismeeks]

"Independent authors?" Is that the aspirational, PC term for self-published authors now? (The equivalent, I suppose, of aspiring writers who insist on calling themselves "pre-published"). Sorry, I'm not buying in.

Yes, publishing is in flux, but so far the only people making money off self-publishing are the vanity presses and POD houses. The paradigms aren't changing as fast as you would like to believe they are, or in the ways you would like them to. Ebooks make up a very, very small percentage of overall book sales...the POD sales barely even register (the vast majority of POD fiction titles are sold to the authors and their narrow circle of families and friends). I would be interested to know how many POD authors are making a "decent living" off their work...and how much money you consider "a decent living" to be. How many of these POD authors, for instance, are making even $10,000 off their books (after recouping what they spent on printing, formating, etc.).** 

I don't believe things are going to get better for POD authors...if anything, I believe the narrowing of the publishing industry is going to make it even harder for self-published writers to get noticed...or accepted...by an ever-shrinking reading audience. One problem is that most of the stuff is unmitigated crap. I'm glad that you've found so much good stuff to read among self-published works...that has not been my experience, or the experience of "typical readers" i know who've tried self-published work.

Lee

Lee, I could understand your attitude if you were a president of a publishing company, but I'm surprised you're so hot-and-bothered against other writers. Perhaps you've spent time on Kindleboards and you've had it with Pollyanna nincompoop writers who think they're going to get a Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka. I'm glad you're trotting out statistics because that shows them. How dare Jim be happy selling a couple books a day. That's not what Real Writers do.

Listen, I happen to know your brother, who taught in the very next room to me at UCLA Extension. He's a funny guy, and I like him, and his classes every week had a lot of energy from the laughter he brought. In reading your profile, I can guess you are funny, too, and maybe you're writing tongue in cheek. Nonetheless, you seem to be coming down hard on people (and on even Red Adept) who happen to like to find needles in the haystack i.e. quality books by independent publishers. I realize you don't like that term, but are "independent filmmakers" okay? Independent directors Courtney Hunt ("Frozen River") and Darren Aronofsky ("Requiem for a Dream") probably had someone tell them that working outside the studio system didn't make them real filmmakers.

I've also written articles on the subject of print on demand, and most POD books don't sell more than 100 copies, mostly to family and friends. I'm not saying you're wrong. Perhaps it irks you to see people trying to be one of the fourteen to show up on the shelves of Barnes and Noble. I guess I'm one of the fourteen. Am I bitter that my agent couldn't place my last book? No. I'm writing another.

I'm sorry if I got under your skin somehow. I'm sure we'd otherwise have a good laugh at a bar near Palm Springs where both your brother and mine live.

Best (if I know what's best),
    Chris