Poetry on Kindle - MERGED thread

[adanlerma]

definitely early days  and i know amazon has some video or files to help learn using kf8, but i just don't have time right now to dig into a whole new format, though eventually i want to

adele, i won't be able to check back immediately, but can you give me an example, a few lines, made up or otherwise, that's been problematic for you?

i know i have a poem from 1981 i haven't been able to include in any of my ebooks cause of the jumps (like multiple tab indents, but often manually chosen in regard to # of spaces), and i haven't been able to format well yet

back later 

[Adele Ward]

Thanks for offering to help adanlerma. I didn't see your post straight away because I got swamped with work.

It's not specific lines. The problem is with all poetry lines if they're a bit long for the width of the page/screen and a word or two need to 'roll over' on to the next line. To let readers know this is still part of the previous line we need the words to indent slightly. This can also happen if readers raise the font size, making more lines 'roll over'.
We have tried the correct way of laying this out, which is to set the indented position as the margin, and to then have a 'negative margin' for rollover lines. It works. But when we upload to Amazon it goes wrong again with whatever they do to it.
Poetry needs to work the opposite way to prose. With prose, the first line of a paragraph is indented, then all the lines roll over automatically left justified. Kindle seems to keep doing this to poetry too, which means each line is indented as it's a new line, and any rollover lines left justify.
I hope this makes sense! I'm not sure if using InDesign would cure it. We have been using Word but we do also have InDesign.
From what I can hear it seems to be a common problem and a lot of publishers are opting to have the whole poem left justified, including any rollover lines. But a reader can't see if it's a rollover line unless it indents. It could be a new line.
Boy this sounds complicated!
I read Alice Oswald's book Memorial on Kindle and they got the rollover lines to indent in the right way. They have to be able to indent like this automatically, no matter how large people choose to set the font.

[jumbojohnny]

There is one thing that can be done re over-long lines for Kindle. If you make an image file for some or all of the poems, then you can control the size of the font in an indirect way, ie, if you make sure the text on the source image file is formatted as you want then the resulting final image file will retain this, as it will be just that file. If you do do this though, do start with a file sized to the standard Kindle page, you'll know in advance then if it's ok or too small etc.

[adanlerma]

Thanks for offering to help adanlerma. I didn't see your post straight away because I got swamped with work.

I read Alice Oswald's book Memorial on Kindle and they got the rollover lines to indent in the right way. They have to be able to indent like this automatically, no matter how large people choose to set the font.

no problem adele, this is like bonus stuff to get to when able; i do understand what you're saying now a bit better

my own work is short-lined (mostly), so haven't seen much of that problem 'cept when i raise the font size real big

any idea how alice got her work to indent automatically?

thanks!

[adanlerma]

There is one thing that can be done re over-long lines for Kindle. If you make an image file for some or all of the poems, then you can control the size of the font in an indirect way, ie, if you make sure the text on the source image file is formatted as you want then the resulting final image file will retain this, as it will be just that file. If you do do this though, do start with a file sized to the standard Kindle page, you'll know in advance then if it's ok or too small etc.

good idea johnny; most text tools in image editors give a choice of strong or precise or soft or such-other type characteristic, so that might be worth experimenting with

[Tony Rabig]

I don't read it as often as I should, but I've bought a number of ebook poetry titles, most recently James Dickey's The Whole Motion: Collected Poems, 1945-1992 (Wesleyan Poetry Series) (pricy but worth it -- if the 14.39 price makes you gag, several of his other collections are also available at lower prices, and I'd recommend Poems, 1957-1967 (Wesleyan Poetry Series) as a good second choice at 9.99)

Donald Justice's Collected Poems are worth a look too.

Am waiting for a good collection of Philip Larkin.  Believe there are some good collections of Cavafy's poems and Ursula LeGuin's poems coming this year.

[Skate]

Much as I love my Kindle and poetry, I've only ever bought one poetry book for Kindle ('Conamara Blues' by John O'Donohue) and I wouldn't buy any more. When I read a poem I like (which I did plenty of times in that book), I want to be able to flip back to it to read whenever I feel like it. I haven't worked out how to do that on a Kindle. You can't just flick through to find a loved line or stanza. So I'll stick to paper books for poetry, I think.

[adanlerma]

Much as I love my Kindle and poetry, I've only ever bought one poetry book for Kindle ('Conamara Blues' by John O'Donohue) and I wouldn't buy any more. When I read a poem I like (which I did plenty of times in that book), I want to be able to flip back to it to read whenever I feel like it. I haven't worked out how to do that on a Kindle. You can't just flick through to find a loved line or stanza. So I'll stick to paper books for poetry, I think.

skate, you should be able to do a search for the line or partial stanza right from the page you're at, via the search or menu function; we have a b&w kindle from christmas before last, and it can search out a word or words

also, if the poet creates an internal index, and places a link to that index after each poem, that's even easier than (on our old kindle) of going to the menu, scrolling down to index, and selecting

i put an index into each ebook i do, from a reader's perspective, mine ;-)

see if you can do a search anyway on yours, really neat if you have a few key words or phrase or poem title in mind

that being said, there's always gonna be something to be said for a paper product one can hold and flip through; but i feel it compliments the digital version, but just my preference ;-) best wishes

[Skate]

skate, you should be able to do a search for the line or partial stanza right from the page you're at, via the search or menu function; we have a b&w kindle from christmas before last, and it can search out a word or words

also, if the poet creates an internal index, and places a link to that index after each poem, that's even easier than (on our old kindle) of going to the menu, scrolling down to index, and selecting

i put an index into each ebook i do, from a reader's perspective, mine ;-)

see if you can do a search anyway on yours, really neat if you have a few key words or phrase or poem title in mind

that being said, there's always gonna be something to be said for a paper product one can hold and flip through; but i feel it compliments the digital version, but just my preference ;-) best wishes

Thanks, Adan. I have to admit to not having played around with the menu much. This particular poetry book doesn't have links to the index unfortunately, but I'll have a play around and see what I can do. The problem with my memory is, I tend to remember things visually - so I'll tend to remember the 'shape' of the poem I liked, rather than the actual words.

[adanlerma]

Thanks, Adan. I have to admit to not having played around with the menu much. This particular poetry book doesn't have links to the index unfortunately, but I'll have a play around and see what I can do. The problem with my memory is, I tend to remember things visually - so I'll tend to remember the 'shape' of the poem I liked, rather than the actual words.

ahh, yes, i use a lot of centered text to get "shape" and recently, with left justified, am "kinda" getting the hang of some shaping through that too, it's fun 

anyway, best wishes, it'll help a lot as more authors put in their own internal indexes i think, take care

[Adele Ward]

Faber and Faber did the Alice Oswald book and I don't know who they would have asked to create the ebook. So I can see it can be done in the correct way, with lines rolling over and indenting no matter how people raise the font.

I find I do enjoy poetry on my Kindle, although I wasn't sure if I would. One good thing is that you can turn it round and read in landscape mode, which is very good for poetry with long lines.

[Ann in Arlington]

Folks, we're in the Book Corner. Please take discussions of poetry from a writer's/publishers point of view (i.e. is it selling, how you format, etc.) to the Writer's cafe.  Some posts may have been deleted or modified.  Thanks.

[adanlerma]

Faber and Faber did the Alice Oswald book and I don't know who they would have asked to create the ebook. So I can see it can be done in the correct way, with lines rolling over and indenting no matter how people raise the font.

I find I do enjoy poetry on my Kindle, although I wasn't sure if I would. One good thing is that you can turn it round and read in landscape mode, which is very good for poetry with long lines.

yea, me too, i like the horizontal mode; and personally i haven't had much problem enjoying poetry on the kindle, phone, or computer app, but most what i've read was fairly straightforward/traditional format wise

i'm sure the newer and upcoming models of everything will be able to do more and more, just taking a bit w/readers for some reason