The Dragon's Pool - Week I (Part I) NO SPOILERS

[Edward C. Patterson]

Hi all you Jade Owl Legacy Readers. I'll be open for discussion starting Monday January 1 with a Read with the Author Book Klub. If you are new to the series, you are welcome to start in The Jade Owl Book Klub as it will remain open and then continue to The Third Peregrination (Book II), which will also remain open to discussion. I will continue to field questions and add discussion items for those who have read the first 2 books, and those who are new to it. In the meantime, check in and sign up for "notification."

The Jade Owl Book Klub: http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,10983.0.html

Edward C. Patterson

[dnagirl]

Starting the first section right now!

[Edward C. Patterson]

Welcome to Week I of The Dragon's Pool (Jade Owl Legacy series Book III), which, imho, is the jewel in the crown. This installment takes you on more twists and turns than a hike in Appalachia.  There are new characters, but also the same one's that you hopefully have come to love (or hate), and you'll learn many secrets about some the one's you thought you knew. Without further ado, here's some discussion points for the 9 Chapters that make up Part I: The Collection - NO SPOILERS HERE, but feel free to ask SPOILER type questions in the thread provided for SPOILERS.

Chapter One:
Silky

1- Despite this being the favorite opening to all of my books, did you think you arrived on a Marvel comic book set?

2- Simone was given very little to do in Book 2. Not so in Book 3. In fact, the inspiration for the formation of the Battle-Geldfarb family circle came from a play that I'm fond of. Can you guess?

3- If you were to guess at Nick's character development path at this point, what would you say?

Chapter Two:
Domestic Bliss

1- This Chapter is short, but brings us up to date on Rowden's changed condition.

2- Does John Battle's fairy tale book strike a bell?

Chapter Three
Bay Breezes

1 - Also short, but there's lot to digest in Part I. Do you remember Sung Yi-di from the Jade Owl and the Third peregrination

2 - Who has The Jade Owl? (Don;t look at your Kindle and say, "I do,") 

3 - Why would I set Simone in a garden setting?

Chapter Four
The Spark of the Middle Kingdom

1 - Other than my establishment of the thing called a super-glimmer, any guesses at what Nick sees in Meng a-bao's mind?

2 - Besides it's prominent position on the Book's cover art, what do you think the yellow feather is? I know it's early, but speculation is a good thing.

3 - Lloyd Kitteridge has an expanded role in this book. If you were to label it, what would be that label.

Chapter Five
Dreams and Shadows

1 - T'ai lung, wo wei-kang ni-de-tze. Translation please. I know it's unfair to leave this bit untranslated, but it's like whispering a secret in someone's ear. Any guesses?

2 - When originally written, the scene on the roof was set somewhere else. I moved it here as a homage to what other great play (where some of the actions and even the dialog echo).

Chapter Six
A Pensive Stroll

1 - San Francisco in the fog is something to experience. Why would I call in the fog now?

2 - Meng is not an endearing character by any stretch, but he does seem to know stuff. What do you think he's hiding?

Chapter Seven
Ars Paleontologica

Now for something completely different - a long chapter and the first major twist in the road.

1 - How does Canto striek you?

2 - Does Sydney appear or act younger than in The Third peregrination? Why is that?

3 - Now you why we're goig back to China, but why does Nick and Meng reacte to the fossils the way they do?

Chapter Eight
The Widow K'uan

1 - What was I drinking when I decided to start a whole new story at the beginning of this one. (Frankly, the story of the K'uan family was long overdue, and if I waited another chapter, I couldn;t tell it at all).

2 - This is not a flashback, but . . . a slipback. Get used to it. This novel has several slipbacks, that sly author waitingin the corner to entrap you.

3 - Did you enjoy this chapter?

Chapter Nine
The Ke-ting Dims

1 - Well we knew she'd go sooner or later. Were you surprised at the Dickensian revelation?

2 - Did you notice at little technical bit here. The dialog between the old Grandmother and Sung Yi-di is devoid of sialog tags (she said, he said). It's hard to do, but when you create a tight vacuum around two characters and the reader, you intensify it by deleting the tags. The tags are so obiquitous that reader's ignore them like white noice - BUT, when you suddenly omit them, their demise is a loud a thunder.

Anyway . . . it's off to Italy to check up on Rosa Tosti-Tostacaroni nee Whitaker. How's your Italian?

Edward C. Patterson

[dnagirl]

Chapter One:
Silky

1- Despite this being the favorite opening to all of my books, did you think you arrived on a Marvel comic book set?LOL, yes!  I was wondering if it was a dream, because it was so much like a comic book.

2- Simone was given very little to do in Book 2. Not so in Book 3. In fact, the inspiration for the formation of the Battle-Geldfarb family circle came from a play that I'm fond of. Can you guess?  I'm loathe to admit that I'm not familiar with much theater.  In fact, the only thing I can think of is Annie.

3- If you were to guess at Nick's character development path at this point, what would you say?  I'd imagine that Nick will grow in maturity, but he needs to reclaim the part of himself that is missing first.

Chapter Two:
Domestic Bliss

1- This Chapter is short, but brings us up to date on Rowden's changed condition.  I like how much of a family man he is.  We hadn't seen this before.

2- Does John Battle's fairy tale book strike a bell?  It's related to Nick's comic book.  They're both telling their tale but in a way that seems fictional.  There is more to both objects than meets the eye.

Chapter Three
Bay Breezes

1 - Also short, but there's lot to digest in Part I. Do you remember Sung Yi-di from the Jade Owl and the Third peregrination  If I'm not mistaken, she's the middle-aged woman whom Rowdy speaks of as being ever-present in the Grandmother's home, even though she was not family.

2 - Who has The Jade Owl? (Don;t look at your Kindle and say, "I do,")  It seems Rowdy gave it to Rose, who has buried it somewhere underground.

3 - Why would I set Simone in a garden setting?  In my mind, a couple of reasons.  First, to enhance her femininity.  Secondly, even though Simone is a stereotypical worry-wort, I find her to be grounding to those around her.  She seems to be a calming presence to those she is around.  I think that a garden setting is thought of as "tranquil" and I think she fits right in.  I also find it interesting that you make her a metaphor for a Gainsborough painting, considering paintings are so important to this story.

Chapter Four
The Spark of the Middle Kingdom

1 - Other than my establishment of the thing called a super-glimmer, any guesses at what Nick sees in Meng a-bao's mind?  The end of the world?  And a dragon's nest.

2 - Besides it's prominent position on the Book's cover art, what do you think the yellow feather is? I know it's early, but speculation is a good thing.  The feather of a dragon?  Although, I didn't think dragons had feathers, they had scales, but so far all signs point to some sort of dragon-like creature which is covered with feathers.  It may represent an unfinished warrant?

3 - Lloyd Kitteridge has an expanded role in this book. If you were to label it, what would be that label.  Museum caretaker?  To be honest, I don't remember his role before.

Chapter Five
Dreams and Shadows

1 - T'ai lung, wo wei-kang ni-de-tze. Translation please. I know it's unfair to leave this bit untranslated, but it's like whispering a secret in someone's ear. Any guesses?  If I have to venture a guess, it's something about the birth of the great dragon?

2 - When originally written, the scene on the roof was set somewhere else. I moved it here as a homage to what other great play (where some of the actions and even the dialog echo).  I again claim ignorance when it comes to theater.  Peter Pan?  It's the only thing I think of when I hear of a man in tights on a rooftop.

Chapter Six
A Pensive Stroll

1 - San Francisco in the fog is something to experience. Why would I call in the fog now?  To represent the hidden things that will be revealed?  Or perhaps to represent the mood of the group as it currently stands?  Nick and Rowden do not seem like theirselves, and seem a bit depressed.  This could also be a foreshadowing of the death that happens later in this part.

2 - Meng is not an endearing character by any stretch, but he does seem to know stuff. What do you think he's hiding?  He knows another warrant that must be fulfilled?  He is definitely not endearing at all and seems very reluctant to assist with anything.  He reminds me of a less-helpful Gilbert, with his stoicism.

Chapter Seven
Ars Paleontologica

Now for something completely different - a long chapter and the first major twist in the road.

1 - How does Canto striek you?  He's a cocky SOB.  But he's d*mn smart.

2 - Does Sydney appear or act younger than in The Third peregrination? Why is that?  To me, he seems younger.  There could be a few reasons why.  He could be energized by the dependence of Rowdy on his knowledge.  He may be energized by being married to a young beauty.  Most likely, it's the same force that enables him (and the others) to have their special powers.  Or maybe because he doesn't use those powers, unlike the others.  Maybe the powers suck some of the life out of you.  Hmmm...

3 - Now you why we're goig back to China, but why does Nick and Meng reacte to the fossils the way they do?  Because they recognize the animal it came from.  Nick saw it when he glimmered Meng, so Meng has seen it as well.

Chapter Eight
The Widow K'uan

1 - What was I drinking when I decided to start a whole new story at the beginning of this one. (Frankly, the story of the K'uan family was long overdue, and if I waited another chapter, I couldn;t tell it at all).  Giving us background of the K'uan and Xiao families.  Providing a sort of simplified family tree.  Also making the connection between a few more members of this story with the main group.

2 - This is not a flashback, but . . . a slipback. Get used to it. This novel has several slipbacks, that sly author waitingin the corner to entrap you.  Sounds good to me.

3 - Did you enjoy this chapter?  I did, very much.  It was interesting to see the new connections that formed and also how the K'uan family made it's fortune.

Chapter Nine
The Ke-ting Dims

1 - Well we knew she'd go sooner or later. Were you surprised at the Dickensian revelation?  You made me cry again.  (I also don't know what a Dickensian revelation is, as I can't stand Dickens.)

2 - Did you notice at little technical bit here. The dialog between the old Grandmother and Sung Yi-di is devoid of sialog tags (she said, he said). It's hard to do, but when you create a tight vacuum around two characters and the reader, you intensify it by deleting the tags. The tags are so obiquitous that reader's ignore them like white noice - BUT, when you suddenly omit them, their demise is a loud a thunder.  It makes you feel like you are standing there in person, listening to the two of them talk.

Anyway . . . it's off to Italy to check up on Rosa Tosti-Tostacaroni nee Whitaker. How's your Italian?  Horrible.  I'll have to rely on my knowledge of Latin to help.

[Edward C. Patterson]

dnagirl:

You're right on the money, although I'll keep you in suspense with the first play (and let Ann and others chime in when she starts).

The garden is important because . . . well, I'll give away the ending. (I'm nice like that). Also Simone's drag name is "deFluerry or the flowers."


Dickensian revelation is when two unlikely characters are discovered to be long lost borhters. There's a great deal of Dickens in my work, although it's all technique as oppose to language.

Peter Pan! You got it.

You're on the right track with "the creature" and the feathers and the dragon (I've learned a long time ago that you must involve the novel's title within the first 40 pages.)

One of the reasons for the slipbacks and some of the decisions I made in this book, as in The Third Peregrination, was to assure that reader will be reading a totally different book - not just another Jade Owl. 

Ed P

PS: You you know who has the you know what and it's . . . well, read the next part. You're ahead of us now.

[dnagirl]

I'm surprised that Peter Pan is right!

I completely forgot about Simone's last name.  Completely.

Ah, I see the Dickensian revelation now.  I was surprised, but figured there had to be some reason that Xiao Ao-ling kept her around.  I'm glad that she's part of the family.

I'll be interested to see if the you-know-what stayed where you-know-who put it.  Oh wait a sec...could it be where I think it might be?

[Edward C. Patterson]

Although You know what is yu know where, and you'll know where, you know what will never actually appear in this novel . . . as such. One of the oddities of this author. Quirk

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter One:
Silky

1- Despite this being the favorite opening to all of my books, did you think you arrived on a Marvel comic book set?

I TOTALLY LOVED how this book started. . . . . . .

now off to read the rest of it. . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Thanks Ann - again, it's my favorite opening (maybe Turning Idolater's opening comes to a close second, but then again, they both involve adolesent hustlers about to be adopted by a different world).

 

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter One:
Silky

1- Despite this being the favorite opening to all of my books, did you think you arrived on a Marvel comic book set?

2- Simone was given very little to do in Book 2. Not so in Book 3. In fact, the inspiration for the formation of the Battle-Geldfarb family circle came from a play that I'm fond of. Can you guess?

3- If you were to guess at Nick's character development path at this point, what would you say?

Well, as I mentioned. . .I loved the opening.

I'm really happy to see more of Simon/Simone. . . .I kind of liked him best in Jade Owl and was sorry he was so absent in Third Peregrination.  . . . . .no idea on the play  (I haven't read other posts yet. . . .)

Nick. . . . . I think he's still . . . . . enchanted. . . .look forward to seeing what the results of it are.

Chapter Two:
Domestic Bliss

1- This Chapter is short, but brings us up to date on Rowden's changed condition.

2- Does John Battle's fairy tale book strike a bell?

Rowden doesn't know how to spell Leia. . . .as in Princess Leia. .. who he referred to as Princess Leah. 

Well, duh, it's the name of THIS book. . . .but I'm guessing it's a Chinese version of the Princess and the Pea. . . . .

On to Chapter 3. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

That Rowden Gray was never a good speller. 

The play is Torch Song Trilogy.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Three
Bay Breezes

1 - Also short, but there's lot to digest in Part I. Do you remember Sung Yi-di from the Jade Owl and the Third peregrination

2 - Who has The Jade Owl? (Don;t look at your Kindle and say, "I do,")  Grin

3 - Why would I set Simone in a garden setting?

I don't remember Sung Yi-di specifically . . . .but did figure out that she was one of the Old Grandmother's hangers' on before you said it. . . . .

Rosie took the Owl. . . .I expect she's keeping it with her. . . .which means she'll be back because I think Simone is right and Nick needs it close. . . .maybe Tosti has it in a safe deposit box somewhere.

Simone fits the garden. . . .and he was dressed for it. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Wait until you see where Rose has The Jade Owl. I just spent my weekend there - as I've written the opening 2 Chapters of The People's Treasure. 

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Four
The Spark of the Middle Kingdom

1 - Other than my establishment of the thing called a super-glimmer, any guesses at what Nick sees in Meng a-bao's mind?

2 - Besides it's prominent position on the Book's cover art, what do you think the yellow feather is? I know it's early, but speculation is a good thing.

3 - Lloyd Kitteridge has an expanded role in this book. If you were to label it, what would be that label.

Dragons are big in Chinese legend. . . .and the book is, after all, calledThe Dragon's pool. . . .couple that with the scientific belief that birds are descended from some form of dinosaur.. . . .I'd guess some prehistoric bird/dragon/reptile thingy.  The feathers are from it. . .and clearly have something to do with the continued 'mission' of the Owl.. . . .I guess Meng knows this somehow.

Kitteridge -- was he the guy Rowden put in charge during the Third Peregrination?  I'm guessing he'll be used in a supporting rather than lead role to assist with exposition. . . . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Yep. We're getting a glimpse at some kind of "thingy". Kitteridge has a supporting role, but expanded. fter all, we can't leave the pot unattended if Rowden winds up globetrotting again.

Ed Patterson

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Five

Dreams and Shadows

1 - T'ai lung, wo wei-kang ni-de-tze. Translation please. I know it's unfair to leave this bit untranslated, but it's like whispering a secret in someone's ear. Any guesses?

2 - When originally written, the scene on the roof was set somewhere else. I moved it here as a homage to what other great play (where some of the actions and even the dialog echo).

Something about the great dragon. . .probably that it's awake or coming. . . .incidentally, when I googled the phrase, the first page that came up is your post above.  The translators were useless -- I guess you use your own made up transliteration system. . . . . .

It's a bit like the balcony scene of Romeo and Juliet. . .especially when Nick calls to Rowdy. . . .

edit:  read your response above. . . I see you were meaning to conjure Peter Pan.  O.K.  I'll buy that. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

I use the Wades Giles transliteration system, which is easier for Western readers, b ut now replaced by pin-yin.

The expression in pin-yin would be:

Tai long, wo wei-gang ni-de qu.

Yes, great dragon is the first expression here . . . but alas I won't translate the rest, considering that Rowdy has mistranslated it already (something that will lead him astray) - but no spoilers.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Six
A Pensive Stroll

1 - San Francisco in the fog is something to experience. Why would I call in the fog now?

2 - Meng is not an endearing character by any stretch, but he does seem to know stuff. What do you think he's hiding?

Fog is mysterious. . . .and quiet.  My mother used to always quote Carl Sandburg when it was foggy:   

The fog comes   
on little cat feet.   
 
It sits looking   
over harbor and city   
on silent haunches          
and then moves on.   

It also implies, usually, that there is something potentially important here but that we can't see.  Meng is like the fog that way. . . .there's something about him that we don't see. . . . .

. . . . . .I'm wondering if Sydney's hanging out with his buddy across the street at what seems to be a Natural History type museum will be significant. . . .dinosaur bones -- dragon eggs. . . .not that much of a stretch. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

ooooooo. Ann might be onto something here. Bring in the Paleontogists.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Seven
Ars Paleontologica

Now for something completely different - a long chapter and the first major twist in the road.

1 - How does Canto striek you?

2 - Does Sydney appear or act younger than in The Third peregrination? Why is that?

3 - Now you why we're goig back to China, but why does Nick and Meng reacte to the fossils the way they do?

Canto has his own agenda. . . .but will be useful because of his specialized knowledge.  He's also a sort of a geek about it. . . .definitely a glory hound.

Sydney is in love and has a child, so yeah he's acting younger. . . .plus he has more confidence. . .or maybe just a more obvious confidence. . . .

I think Nick and Meng are connected somehow to the original of the fossil. . . . .it's connected to what Nick saw in Meng when he glimmered  . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Interesting observations Ann.

Sydney IS acting younger. To know why you need to index him to his counterpart in outhern Swallow - K'ang Yu-wei.  (tricky ain't I).

Canto is egotism on feet, but he'll surpise us soon, and Sydney.

The relationship oof Meng and Nick (if you want to call it a relationship) is a key theme point. All John Battle's Children are offballs.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Oh Oh Oh. . . .Sydney is the Restorer. . . .what's to stop him from Restoring himself?. . . but he'd best be careful where he puts those hands of his. . . . . .

And if he handles the ancient bones he might end up re-creating the original live thing. . .which doesn't really seem like it would be a good idea. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Oh, Oh. Ann is one my wavelength.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Eight
The Widow K'uan

1 - What was I drinking when I decided to start a whole new story at the beginning of this one. (Frankly, the story of the K'uan family was long overdue, and if I waited another chapter, I couldn;t tell it at all).

2 - This is not a flashback, but . . . a slipback. Get used to it. This novel has several slipbacks, that sly author waitingin the corner to entrap you.

3 - Did you enjoy this chapter?

This was an appropriate place for some backstory. . . . .I'm guessing there will be some further revelations in the next Chapter. . . . . . . .

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Nine
The Ke-ting Dims

1 - Well we knew she'd go sooner or later. Were you surprised at the Dickensian revelation?

2 - Did you notice at little technical bit here. The dialog between the old Grandmother and Sung Yi-di is devoid of sialog tags (she said, he said). It's hard to do, but when you create a tight vacuum around two characters and the reader, you intensify it by deleting the tags. The tags are so obiquitous that reader's ignore them like white noice - BUT, when you suddenly omit them, their demise is a loud a thunder.

Definitely Dickensien. . . . and a bit confusing. 

What kinds of ages are we talking?  I had the impression Nick is mid 20's, Old Grandmother dies at 100.  Sung seems to be 60-ish? . .  .John Battle was sowing oats for quite a long time, if so. . . .How old do you envision all these folks?

The dialog was not an issue. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Haven't you ever heard of the ageless Chinese. Well first of all, John was older than most of his women and John was quite advanced when Nick was born as you'll see in another slipback. I never say that the old Grandmother is 100 (although I intentionally make you think that using the Chinese system of counting, which always rounds number up to the nearest 100 or 1,000). Win-t'o is nearing 50, and Sung Yi-di is the second child, so she is in her mid-forties, while Meng Ka-bao, the third child (from another trip back to China to be covered in book 4) is thirty eight. Nick is 24. It was a rough birth and his mother never really recovered, that's why he was brought up by Aunt Millie, while John took up residence in New York. John was never close to his children and, as we can deduce (and you will see) was never close to these women. He was more entranced by their place in his quest than for their companionship. Nick was likely a mistake of his advanced years, although Nick always sought his father's love and approval (as again, you shall see). The old Grandmother's fling with John takes place years after they first rubbed elbows in Guilin. She was over forty when she had Sung Yi-di, so she dies at age ninety-two.

However, I must say, you're the first reader to try to jog together all the character's ages. There is a reason I leave them out of the story and allow the reader to form their own mental conclusions on age. Wait until you encounter the 180 year old I have in store for you.  However, I am guilty as charged misleading you to think that the old grandmother is 100.  Actually see her as 110 sometimes, and sometimes as 22 waiting on Angel island. It's funny how you can convince people that you can hop through a silk painting and wind up in 12th Century China, but when it comes the ageless Chinese, we want to see . . . the passports. 

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

92. . . .100. . . . .same thing when you're considering the span of ages of the various kids. I still say that Battle was quite the oat sower. . . . .and it does make more sense when you realize that the mothers were all different women. . . . .

o.k. then. . . .off to Italy. . . . . . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Ann:

Since we're reading this together, I will share with you and the other members of the Klub that author's use a "trick" also called "hanging  a lantern," which comes from the old Silent Movie days when a piece of the scenery stuck out illogically, they'd shout "Hang a lantern on it and nobody'll notice it."

Sometimes authors need to do this to prevent spilling the beans. I do it in The Jade Owl when Nick and Rowden first enter the tomb and there's light. Now in an earlier version I had a long explanation for the light, but because of that explanation when Wu Tze-t'ien appears and is alive, the surpirse was gone - no shock, because everyone has figured out that "someone" kept the lights going. I replaced all that by having an unexplained "light" in the red chamber which remained unexplained. So when we see the lights in the tomb, Rowden hangs a lantern on it, by saying that these were similar to the unexplained light in the Red Chamber "and he never got a satisfactory explanation for that either." THEN I LEAVE IT ALONE. And no one notices it or questions it, and thus the Empress Wu's appearance is a surprise.

This reminds me of a comment made by Sean Astin on a commentary for The Two Towers, when he asked the lighting director in the Cireth Ungol scene about some unexplained lighting: "Where is the light coming from?," Astin asked. The man smiled and said, "the same place that the music comes from."

My favorite logic slip comes, of course, from Gilbert & Sullivan. The Pirates of Penzance. Act One is set on a Summer day in Cornwall on the heroes 21st birthday. Major-General Stanley's daughters are skipping along the coast, splashing in the water and having a picnic. Of course we learn in Act Two that the hero was born in leap year on the 29th of Febraury (a plot inequity to nullify his piratical contract). No one ever questions that bright Summer day picnicking in Cornwall in Act One that actually takes place in the dead of winter.  In this case Gilbert didn't hang a lantern on it. He just presents the fact out of sequence and the audiences misses the logical slip. Oh, there's all sorts of slips made on purpose. I could write a book. (Wait a second, I think I did).

Ed P