|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« on: January 18, 2010, 12:15:27 PM » |
|
This novel is perhaps my most varied giving you a never ending assortment of mystery and adventure. Just like I like 'em. So it shouldn't come as a surprise to find yourself in Italy in Part II. (BTW, I assume that this group will take more than a week) Part II - Fiesole Chapter I - Campo Culadura 1 - The Campo Culadura seems to only grow rocks and onions. What is this field - really??? 2 - We are introduce to 2 central characters in this chapter in the brothers Tostacaroni. How do you like the contracts? Ad how's Rose's maternal feelings developing? 3 - We also meet the resident dragon of the Villa, Zia Berenice. Why would I introduce such a character? Chapter 2 & 3 - Before the Stall & Nel' Pergolato 1 - Two short chapters designed to get Tuscany into your nostrils. Why would I show Rose so combative? 2 - The meal. Would you like an invitation to that meal? (Well, in order to write those 2 paragraphs describing the Tuscan meal, I bought an authentic Tuscan cookbook and made the Lamb and some of the other dishes - and gained a couple of pounds capturing the textures and the tastes (not to mention the aroma). Sometimes an author's research is quite rewarding. But I also have traveled in Tuscany (can't you tell), and Fiesole is one of my favorite spots. 3 - So just as I get you settled in Tuscany, I slip back to . . . New Yawk City. Besides wanting to show you Rose's tale instead of having it told, what do you see in this slipback that's important? There are many telling clues here. Chapter Four - La Giada Gufo 1 - Has Rafaelo changed in your eyes? Has Rose? 2 - Has the dots been connected for you as far as Nick and the Owl is concerned? PS: I am constantly quoting Gilbert & Sullivan in all my novels for savoyard readers. This chapter has a silly arcane one. Agony. Rage. Despair. Which comes from the second Act of The Sorcerer. "O, agony , rage, despair The woman has light brown hair And mine is as white as snow." It's a minor little thing that adds to Rose's overall character, because also from The Sorcerer is "Now to the banquet we press," which Rose sang in The Third Peregrination. Chapter Five - Sex (whoops) I mean - La Spezzia 1 - Are liking Ezio yet? (I'd be surprised). 2 - Were you surprised by the tidbit in his bed? (This is one of thos scenes where I have no research whatsoever. Rather have the Tuscan meal.  ) Part IV - The Last Warrant (Don't you believe it for a moment) Chapter I - Alcatraz 1 - How is Nicky shaping up as a father? and Simone as a mother? 2 - Nick's special talents excel here, but his mental journey serves to mingle not only the villainy of Pelasar, but thresh out some growing relationships? Between who(m)? Why are we on Alcatraz? 3 - Who's that woman? Any guesses? PS: I wanted to have an Alcatraz scene in The Jade Owl but my agent had me cut it (good thing to), because this was the time for it. Chapter II - Niu-wa (pronounced Nyu-wah) 1 - What do we learn about John Battle here? 2 - What do we learn about Rowden Gray? Chapter III - A Look in the Mirror 1 - What is the problem between Nick and Rowden? 2 - What is happening to Nick? Chapter IV - The Agent 1 - Is Ezio out of his element, do you think? 2 - What do you suppose the "Clot" joke means. If you don;t know, that's all right, I ask it again and again . . . and again. 3 - Do you think that the relics are still quiet in this Hall of quiet relics? Chapter V - A Slippery Slope 1 - Does this little dinner at the Drake reminiscent of anything? 2 - Who is Ezio's stalker? Chapter VI - By Invitation Only (Can't have a Jade Owl book without a party - in fact, in this one we have a few) 1 - What is the structural reason for this author having a reception at this point? 2 - Does Ch;en Jr-ling (Thomas) appear changed 3 - What seems to be happening to Silky? 4 - Siblings, siblings, what's the problem between these siblings? Chapter VII - Russian Hill 1 - Why Russian Hill? And what famous novel(s) is set on Barbary Lane in a house owned by Mrs. Anna Madrigal? 2 - Have some lights gone on regarding John Battle's little tale and the legend that Meng Ka-bao tells? 3 - What is a Chinese elemental? 4 - A lot to digest, but are the dots being further connected with this talk of eggs? (BTW: I couldn't resist having the pot smoking scene on the porch as a throwback to Rowdy's hippy days, Nick's road days and a homage to Armistead's book) Chapter VIII & IX - Mr. Firestone's Report & Mooning the Honey (one of my favorite 2 Chapters) 1 - Our first view of China in this book, the slipback to Yang-shuo should disorient you a bit. Did it? 2 - How do you like Gil "Featherduster" Canto now? 3 - Why is this chapter set in the rain? 4 - If nothing else, you've learned the Chinese word for BUS, which I find funny - gung-gung-ch'ua.  5 - Did you enjoy the reunion with Charlie and then with Little Cricket? I mean, without these guys, where would the Legacy series be? 6 - If you had to guess, what Dickens novel inspired "Cricket in the Homestead?" 7 - Did you notice that you slipbacked a second time (a double slipback) when Cricket goes to Mt. Li? (You two levels deep and back now) 8 - What are gifts of Mt. Li?" I detail them later, but wouldn;t it be nice if you can guess? BTW: The double slipback - Rowden reading the letter, then slipping to Sydney in Yang-shou/Gui-lin and then Cricket slipping back to Mt. Li, and then sipping up and out to the letter and to Rose's appearance, whew! is a circus aerial acting for any author. Only time will tell if I got it right. (It's like Rodney Dangerfield's Triple Lindy). =================================== Now that most of the gang's together, let's stir things up. "Conspiracy!" Enjoy Ed P
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 12:17:10 PM by Edward C. Patterson »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 01:44:50 PM » |
|
Part II - Fiesole
Chapter I - Campo Culadura
1 - The Campo Culadura seems to only grow rocks and onions. What is this field - really??? It's the burial ground for the Jade Owl. Rose buried it there and some sort of power in it is causing things to grow.
2 - We are introduce to 2 central characters in this chapter in the brothers Tostacaroni. How do you like the contracts? Ad how's Rose's maternal feelings developing? I'm going to assume you mean the contrasts between Ezio and Tadzio, as the only contract I know of in this chapter is the one Rose wrote up for the Seven Sisters display. Anyway, the brothers are completely opposite. Ezio is brash, cocky and thinks with his...well you know. Tadzio, on the other hand, is shy and emotional, feels with his heart. Rose is very fond of the boys, but Tadzio more I think, as he reminds her of Nick. Her relationship with the girls is different though, she doesn't seem as close with them. I think she does have some maternal instincts, but they aren't right out there for all to see.
3 - We also meet the resident dragon of the Villa, Zia Berenice. Why would I introduce such a character? To show all is not sunshine and puppy dogs? To show a wedge, or issues, between Rose and Rafaelo?
Chapter 2 & 3 - Before the Stall & Nel' Pergolato
1 - Two short chapters designed to get Tuscany into your nostrils. Why would I show Rose so combative? She may have softened a bit, but she's still the tough, strong-willed Rose and she certainly refuses to be pushed around by anyone. She may have to ease up a bit though if she wants to keep her marriage. Maybe this will make Rose realize that she needs to perhaps be a bit softer. What do they say...honey catches the flies?
2 - The meal. Would you like an invitation to that meal?
(Well, in order to write those 2 paragraphs describing the Tuscan meal, I bought an authentic Tuscan cookbook and made the Lamb and some of the other dishes - and gained a couple of pounds capturing the textures and the tastes (not to mention the aroma). Sometimes an author's research is quite rewarding. But I also have traveled in Tuscany (can't you tell), and Fiesole is one of my favorite spots. Oh lord, yes I want an invitation to that meal. I am a major foodie, love to cook, love to eat and love to try anything new. Baby artichokes. YUM. Lamb with garlic, wine and bay leaves. YUM. Osso bucco. YUM. Polenta crostini. YUM. Pasta with wild boar and mushrooms. YUM. I could go on and on, but I'm drooling.
3 - So just as I get you settled in Tuscany, I slip back to . . . New Yawk City. Besides wanting to show you Rose's tale instead of having it told, what do you see in this slipback that's important? There are many telling clues here. There is a ton of information in this section and so far, this was my favorite part of the book. First, we get to see the first meeting of Rose and Rowden. We also get to see John Battle for the first time in person. We learn that pearls in Chinese myth refer to water (and from the little research I did, I found that dragons in Chinese mythology controlled the weather/rains. We also see the effect of the artifacts (or thoughts of the artifacts) on Battle. We also have a retelling of the fact that the Jade Owl will bring the return of the comets. I have a suspicion, but don't know if I am correct. I'm theorizing that in the Battle fairy tale, the Princess is Wu Tze-t'ien and the pearl is the World Egg. She steals the World Egg from someone/thing (dragon? the thing with feathers?).
I'll keep reading and answer as I go.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 01:54:21 PM by dnagirl »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 02:21:18 PM » |
|
Ooooo. You're so right on target. I'm glad you liked the New Yawk scene. I was one of those slipback that "just happened." I wanted to contrast the two relationships and I originally had Rose tell her story, but then decided . . . what the heck, why not go back to my old alma mater. (I did post-graduate work in Kent Hall at Columbia, so I can describe the lecture hall - window and all - excactly - and the library, where I lived a good deal of my life for 2 years - oh, those scapula bones). We'll be back in Columbia (Old Pew) in The People's Treasure, but for now it's the only time in. BTW, there's quite a number of slipback that involve John bttle, whose backstory continues to emerge for this and the next two books. There's a lot to tell about randy John.
You analogy of the Princess and the pearl is getting warm (not quite a biscuit yet, but you're tracking it well). And you're correct about the dragon as a water symbol. In fact, the dragon (T'ai lung) or Dragon-king, is the god of ater. In The Academician, I show a who dragon well cermony when the city of Su-chou faces draught.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 03:05:27 PM » |
|
Oh I forgot one other thing. The New Yawk slipback also showed the origins of the "We prod and poke" verse that showed up in the last book. Thought that was interesting.
I also find it interesting how in this book, Nick is feeling things the Jade Owl feels (in the first section, where he feels the weight and texture of dirt...which was my clue to the owl being buried). It's in direct opposition to the first two books, as there the owl spoke through the people but as far as I know, they never felt anything the owl was *directly* feeling.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 04:30:54 PM » |
|
Well, they weren't The One.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 04:46:44 PM » |
|
True, but not even Nick actually felt what the owl was physically feeling/seeing until this book, right? Or did I miss something.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 05:08:02 PM » |
|
Well, you did and you didn't. There's stuff going on in some of these books that you'll see again if and when you tap the Southern Swallow series. Both series get tied together at many points. After all, some of that cast, Li K'ai-men and K'u Ko-ling we met in The Third Peregrination. In both the Academician and The Nan Tu you'll see the 12th century stretching in the other direction and when it does, it will explain some of the paranormal things that are going on, especially in The Third Peregrination. For example, some of Rowdy's dialog when trying to save Nick at Old Sheep is couched to just-about make sense. They aren't relly alone in the cell in that scene . . . but I'll say no more.  Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 07:08:50 AM » |
|
Chapter Four - La Giada Gufo
1 - Has Rafaelo changed in your eyes? Has Rose? Mostly what we saw in the last book was a doting, starstruck Rafaelo. It seems now that some reality has set in. He’s more realistic about Rose, not putting her up on such a high pedestal, but loves her very much. I think Rose is realizing that she may need to make some concessions to a man, maybe for the first time in her life. I think they’re still feeling each other out in this relationship and adapting to each other. I’m hoping that Rose’s time away from Rafaelo doesn’t negatively impact them, because I have grown to really like them together.
2 - Has the dots been connected for you as far as Nick and the Owl is concerned?
PS: I am constantly quoting Gilbert & Sullivan in all my novels for savoyard readers. This chapter has a silly arcane one. Agony. Rage. Despair. Which comes from the second Act of The Sorcerer. "O, agony , rage, despair The woman has light brown hair And mine is as white as snow."
It's a minor little thing that adds to Rose's overall character, because also from The Sorcerer is "Now to the banquet we press," which Rose sang in The Third Peregrination. Yep, Nick is able to sense the Owl’s surroundings. In other news, I know nothing about Gilbert & Sullivan.
Chapter Five - Sex (whoops) I mean - La Spezzia
1 - Are liking Ezio yet? (I'd be surprised). No. Actually, I’m disliking him even more. He’s a dirtball and a traitor and cares only about himself. At least, that’s how he’s coming across at this point.
2 - Were you surprised by the tidbit in his bed?
(This is one of thos scenes where I have no research whatsoever. Rather have the Tuscan meal. ) Yes I was. It seems that she’s even more conniving and evil than I thought, and she was pretty bad in the last book. She’s one vindictive woman. I’d also rather have the Tuscan meal.
Part IV - The Last Warrant (Don't you believe it for a moment)
Chapter I - Alcatraz
1 - How is Nicky shaping up as a father? and Simone as a mother? I think very well. You can see the fondness that they both have for Silky in this chapter. Nick at one point ruffles his hair like you would with a son. I think Silky seems to be adapting well also.
2 - Nick's special talents excel here, but his mental journey serves to mingle not only the villainy of Pelasar, but thresh out some growing relationships? Between who(m)? Why are we on Alcatraz? Oooooh that Pelasar is an awful person and he sure knows the right things to say to push buttons and manipulate. Silky is developing a relationship with Sung Yi-di (whom I trust) and Win-t’o (whom I don’t). Nick has come to Alcatraz because I think he glimmered Win-t’o and found out he was meeting someone there. Nick wanted information. He brought Simone and Silky with him so he had an excuse (“we were just touring!”) if he got caught. They were his alibi. I know Nick claims he didn’t plan to glimmer Win-t’o on Alcatraz, but I’m not sure I believe it. Why else would he have gone? Was he going to hide in the bushes to try and overhear? Why do that if he could glimmer? Anyway, this whole conversation between Win-t’o and Pelsar confirm my belief that I can’t trust Win-t’o.
3 - Who's that woman? Any guesses?
PS: I wanted to have an Alcatraz scene in The Jade Owl but my agent had me cut it (good thing to), because this was the time for it. I’m still voting for Wu Tze-t’ien.
Chapter II - Niu-wa (pronounced Nyu-wah)
1 - What do we learn about John Battle here? John Battle was hiding part of the fairy tale story.
2 - What do we learn about Rowden Gray? We learn that Rowden has a lot of respect for Kitteridge and is also not infallible. I found Kitteridge’s background interesting too. He’s quite knowledgeable.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 07:17:14 AM » |
|
You're still tracking along nicely and I'm glad that you're gonna be in for a few character surprises.(I love when people take my bait lol  ). Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 10:22:42 AM » |
|
OMG Edward, you have my head spinning. Chapter III - A Look in the Mirror
1 - What is the problem between Nick and Rowden? I don’t think Rowden likes what Nick is becoming. And perhaps he’s a little jealous of his nighttime antics? 2 - What is happening to Nick? Nick believes he is the Owl. His scent has changed from lavender to earth. He feels he is losing the essence of himself and becoming a vessel for the owl. Chapter IV - The Agent
1 - Is Ezio out of his element, do you think? Yes and no. I think he’s out of his element as far as knowledge of the history of the artifacts. I think he’s in his element of “shmoozing.” I love how Nick puts him in his place. 2 - What do you suppose the "Clot" joke means. If you don;t know, that's all right, I ask it again and again . . . and again. A clot usually stops something up. That’s all I know right now. I snork out loud every time Ezio says “clot” though. I like that they’re making fun of him right to his face without him knowing. 3 - Do you think that the relics are still quiet in this Hall of quiet relics? Oh I don’t think so. Chapter V - A Slippery Slope
1 - Does this little dinner at the Drake reminiscent of anything? If it is, I’m missing it. 2 - Who is Ezio's stalker? Griffin Jones, I presume. Chapter VI - By Invitation Only
(Can't have a Jade Owl book without a party - in fact, in this one we have a few)
1 - What is the structural reason for this author having a reception at this point? To tie in characters we haven’t seen in a while to this storyline? 2 - Does Ch;en Jr-ling (Thomas) appear changed I’m not sure yet. 3 - What seems to be happening to Silky? He seems to be falling under some sort of spell. 4 - Siblings, siblings, what's the problem between these siblings? I never got the feeling that any of them really like each other, even though they share blood. Chapter VII - Russian Hill
1 - Why Russian Hill? And what famous novel(s) is set on Barbary Lane in a house owned by Mrs. Anna Madrigal? The Tale of the City or something like that. I assumed Russian Hill because we can compare it to the last time we found Rowdy and Nick here? 2 - Have some lights gone on regarding John Battle's little tale and the legend that Meng Ka-bao tells? My basic reaction was “holy #&%!” 3 - What is a Chinese elemental? I know from feng shui, there are five elements that everthing is made of: water, metal, wood, fire and earth. Each can create or destroy another. 4 - A lot to digest, but are the dots being further connected with this talk of eggs?
(BTW: I couldn't resist having the pot smoking scene on the porch as a throwback to Rowdy's hippy days, Nick's road days and a homage to Armistead's book) You aren’t kidding about a lot to digest. I’m not sure I’ve got it all digested yet. Let’s see how I do. First of all, Anne was right about it being some sort of radiation. The world egg is the female dragon egg. The red stone that Sung Yi-di (now Xaio Yi-di) has is the male dragon egg. Niu-wa stole the female egg. Niu-wa can possess people and has possessed Wu Tze-t’ien and Wu Ch’e-k-ai. She is now possibly possessing Sung Yi-di? Or someone else? The feathers were from the dragon. The Jade Owl is dragon dung, formed to protect the eggs from ever coming together. I know the comets have something to do with all this too. Yeah, I’m still confused and probably overthinking things and you're probably sitting there just chuckling .
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 10:54:09 AM » |
|
Nothing wrong with your "digestion" you got it so far, inlcuding my red herrings (but I won't tell you which one's they are).
"Clot" is what is termed an "echo." That is a word or phrase that is somewhat common or a joke that changes everytime it it's used. Generally, and I won't fail you, this echo will punch you in the chest before I'm done with it - along with the other echo - the phrase Wham! Bam! Boom!. A good example of an "echo" word is in the film Ghost - the word "ditto." or in Imitation of Life, the phrase "I want my ducky," which had all of America in tears when Claudette spoke it giving the film the name - "tear jerker of the century."
Rowdy is jealous of Nick because Nick is writing and publishing the comic strip.
The dinner is reminiscent of Connie's meal with Rowdy in The Jade Owl, some 2,500 pages ago.
Russian Hill is the setting of Tales of the City by Amidtead Maupin. It's a gay tie-in, which is important to this pan-sexual book. You have the Chinese elements correct, but an elemental is a spirit - and origin creation spirit - very powerful and difficult to kill.
I think I'm correct in saying that The Dragon's Pool is The Jade Owl to the tenth power. Each book builds on its prediciessor and thus assumes that you have some preconceived notion. If you don;t remember all that was told to you up to this point, don't worry, because neither does Rowden, and who knows it might all . . . change.
Each book of the Jade Owl Legacy is "toned" to one of the five great philosophical school of Chinese culture. The Jade Owl (the most structured) is in the Confucian mode, while The Third Peregrination is in the Buddhist mode. This one is Taoist, and thus the most metaphyscial and paranormal of the lot, and to me, the most scintillating. The People's Treasure reflects Naturalism, while the last book - In the Shadow of Her Hem, is legalist. Hope you're enjoying this.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 01:03:14 PM » |
|
Ed, I definitely saw the Buddhist theme in The Third Peregrination, especially with the Protector (Rowden), the Destroyer (Nick) and the Preserver (Sydney) representing Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma. I am still confused, but I'm definitely invested in the story. I want to know what is going on and I'm very excited to continue. On my SATs and GREs, reading comprehension was my worst score, so I may not be the best at this, but I do enjoy it. You may have to definitely lead me or just give me straight up answers sometimes, because otherwise I will just. not. get. it.  Is an origin creation spirit one that actually took part in creating the earth? Oh wait, I just found Niu-wa. She was the creator of mankind and repaired the wall of heaven. She is half serpent half human.So much to think about.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 01:07:18 PM » |
|
That description of Niu-wa that you found - sound familiar?  Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 01:09:13 PM » |
|
The vision that Nick sees at Alcatraz.
The giant wall and the gate in the village...heaven...or are you misleading me again?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 01:11:44 PM » |
|
Well, Niu-wa is one of the more difficult elementals to clasify. You'll learn more and more about her as time goes on.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 01:39:30 PM » |
|
The last bit.
Chapter VIII & IX - Mr. Firestone's Report & Mooning the Honey
(one of my favorite 2 Chapters) 1 - Our first view of China in this book, the slipback to Yang-shuo should disorient you a bit. Did it? Yes. I do like the way that we go from the letter directly to the action where the letter came from.
2 - How do you like Gil "Featherduster" Canto now? Love the nickname. Ol’ Mr. Ego is quite the pain in the rear when it comes to actually doing the hard work.
3 - Why is this chapter set in the rain? To make Canto even more miserable? LOL!
4 - If nothing else, you've learned the Chinese word for BUS, which I find funny - gung-gung-ch'ua.
5 - Did you enjoy the reunion with Charlie and then with Little Cricket? I mean, without these guys, where would the Legacy series be? Dead in the water, as we would have never gotten all the Sisters.
6 - If you had to guess, what Dickens novel inspired "Cricket in the Homestead?" Great Expectations?
7 - Did you notice that you slipbacked a second time (a double slipback) when Cricket goes to Mt. Li? (You two levels deep and back now) Yes, we went back to the day where the group went into the mountain and Nick tried to destroy the world.
8 - What are gifts of Mt. Li?" I detail them later, but wouldn;t it be nice if you can guess? Gems? I honestly have no idea.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 02:39:44 PM » |
|
I set this chapter in the rain because one of my fondest memories of Yang-shuo and Guilin is walking through the threadbar marketplace in the rain and the istening of rain on the roof of my hotel room. Whenever I can sleep at night I set my Blackberry to white noice "rain," close my eyes and board the skip with Sydney and Cato and I'm immediatly drawn back to Guilin. Recall the rain sequence in The Jade Owl when the China Hands are recouperating from the Cave of the Winds. I say that the beating of the rain reminds us of our mothers heart in the womb. I think this is true, now that my Mom is no longer at hand to wish me goodnight or good morning. But the rain is here. I'm not being maudlin. (I use rain in Look Away Silence to convey the most nosalgic and heart wrenching par of that book). However, if you're gonna read with the author, you're gonna hear the author's soul. BTW, I give ol; Featherduster another name soon. Just you wait. For a person who hates Dickens, you got it right on he money. Miss Haversham in Great Expectations. My mentors are Austen, Melville, King, Gilbert and Dickens and I constantly pay them each homage. The gifts of Mt. Li will become clear, but I'll ask you this. When Rowdy came through the Joy of Finches ch'i banner at the end of The Third peregrination, he snatched The jade Owl, but the whole party lost their clothes - naked remember. The price of passage for that ch'i banner (each one has one). Well, he also lost some other stuff coming through - namely a big-*ss ring and a danling potal. Plus the tomb key was up top. So, now if you were to guess what Little Cricket found miraculously on the Mountain after the quake, you might be able to wing-ding a firm guess. I should do a Tolkienese catalog of all these dang relics.  Now that Rose has arrived, things can really start to step up. Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 03:03:11 PM » |
|
I was forced to read Great Expectations in high school. The only thing I remember about the book is the old woman Ms. Havisham, sitting alone in the dark in her house.
The gifts must be the opal ring and the pin (was it a dragon pin? grrrr my memory) that were lost when they came through the final banner portal. Sydney called them their "familiars" which is usually like a totem, isn't it? Or wait...is a familiar a spirit. Pardon me as I'm typing as I'm thinking.
I like hearing about the soul of the author. I also understand why you used the rain now. I've always been comforted by the sound of rain, but never knew about the womb aspect. Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 03:05:56 PM by dnagirl »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 04:18:03 PM » |
|
A little mind jog:
"The wise say the reason the sound of rain upon roofs and windows comfort is rooted in a remembrance before birth, when we sensed the beating of our mother’s heart in the chamber of her cherished womb. No other sound can so restore us. Therefore, after the Cave of the Winds, no better restorative could have been sought than to lie in the Xiao Homestead and attend to its rain-kissed ancient roof. Xiao Win-t’o, broken and delirious, returned to his mother’s arms. Those arms bore danger, because the only cure she knew was merciful release. However, the beating of a mother’s heart is recalled to life with more resource than this. Xiao Ao-ch’u bathed Win-t’o’s blistering skin. Cool waters. Poultices. All the while, he wept more in shame than in pain. Ao-ch’u renounced the skein of the past. It mattered not now. She might need to resort to the pillow and the pressure, but before that course, she cradled her son near her bosom; close to the place of his birth; nearer to the place of his death. Rowden dwelled in the shadows, listening to the rain. He peered through the portal just two doors away from where Sam Ch’ang dwindled and succumbed. From the threshold, he thought of his own mother as she sang him to sleep in the dim days when she called him Row and likened him to an archer: Sweet angel child, my little Row May your heart and shoulders grow; To gather love where e’er you sow And draw your strong and honest bow.
Rowden found it hard to resist the maternal voice that sang in the muddles of his mind. It wasn’t scientific, this sentimentality, but it was an infection from the rain and the Xiao woman’s care. Still, Rowden thought temporal fingers mocked his memories, chiding his senses to inhale fresh laundry instead of mold. He sighed on the threshold. “Wouldn’t he be better in a hospital?” he asked Xiao Ao-ch’u. “No hospital for my son.” This was not surprising from a woman who trusted the outcome to the Dao de dau-tze. No matter how trussing a gurney draped with tubes and respiratory apparatus would have comforted the alive and well, such unnatural impediments to the course of things was anathema to the fatalist. Ao-ch’u had called for an herbalist. This she allowed. The bag of bones chemist arrived with many time-honored recipes for bringing a soul from the brink of death. This she allowed. Cool water. Poultices. A paste of tortoise shell. An infusion of beetle dung. “My son is safe in tradition’s hands; if heaven is good to him.” She glanced at the ceiling. “If heaven remembers me and is kind to an unworthy woman.” Audrey emerged from the shadows. “Xiao women are strong willed, Rowden,” she said. She touched his hand, a warm touch in the rain song’s cold chill. He placed his hand over hers.
- The Jade Owl
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2010, 05:25:06 PM » |
|
I remember that now. Thanks for the jog. Sometimes, I swear, my retention is just awful.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2010, 06:42:27 PM » |
|
Part II - Fiesole
Chapter I - Campo Culadura
1 - The Campo Culadura seems to only grow rocks and onions. What is this field - really???
2 - We are introduce to 2 central characters in this chapter in the brothers Tostacaroni. How do you like the contracts? Ad how's Rose's maternal feelings developing?
3 - We also meet the resident dragon of the Villa, Zia Berenice. Why would I introduce such a character? 1...I get the impression that Rose thinks it is some ancient burial site. . . she keeps talking about Etruscans. . . . .OTOH, she's put the Owl somewhere. . . . . . 2..... not sure what you're asking? I gather the one is enamoured of a girl who's essentially a servant; the other is interested in whatever beautiful woman he can bed today. Contracts? The letter did come from San Francisco. . . . .if there was anything more specific I didn't catch it in the midst of the Italian.  3...... every book needs a good villain. 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 07:03:04 PM » |
|
Ann:
I meant to say "contrast" not contract.
I'm in NJ and the wifi internet connection that I generally use is working. Sp I finally, after an hour or so dug out an old ethernet chord from the bottom of my father's closet and set up his connection through the cable. (He's set up on wifi also). So this is a great thing to be able to come over here. I thought I was without internet sertvice until Sunday night. YIKES!!
It's a good thing.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 07:06:30 PM » |
|
Ah! Well. .. .. .I think I addressed the contrast between them. . . . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2010, 07:39:03 PM » |
|
Yes, between loveable Tadzio  and dispicable, Ezio.  Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2010, 08:00:02 PM » |
|
Despicable is a good word for Tadzio. Ugh, I haven't found one redeeming quality about his character yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2010, 09:18:33 PM » |
|
Dnagirl: Ezio, you mean. Tadzio's a lamb.  The Amalliatore. Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dnagirl
|
 |
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2010, 01:26:46 PM » |
|
Dnagirl: Ezio, you mean. Tadzio's a lamb.  The Amalliatore. Ed P Yes, that's what I meant. I keep getting them backwards for some reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2010, 04:39:22 PM » |
|
not home at the moment but I just read the chapter about dinner and now I seriously want to go to an italian restaurant. we have a favorite that we've not been to in quite a while.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2010, 04:46:33 PM » |
|
I never had as glorious a meal at Fiesole, but I had a memorable one overloooking Firenze back in 1971 in the spirit of Nel' Pergolata with Mom and Dad, and my two younger brothers (and they were youngsters then. They're both in their fifties now).Of course, if I ever prepare the lamb again, I'll send out invitations.  Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2010, 07:31:44 PM » |
|
Of course, if I ever prepare the lamb again, I'll send out invitations.  Ed P Put me on your list. . . . . . 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2010, 11:54:54 AM » |
|
Chapter 2 & 3 - Before the Stall & Nel' Pergolato
1 - Two short chapters designed to get Tuscany into your nostrils. Why would I show Rose so combative?
2 - The meal. Would you like an invitation to that meal?
(Well, in order to write those 2 paragraphs describing the Tuscan meal, I bought an authentic Tuscan cookbook and made the Lamb and some of the other dishes - and gained a couple of pounds capturing the textures and the tastes (not to mention the aroma). Sometimes an author's research is quite rewarding. But I also have traveled in Tuscany (can't you tell), and Fiesole is one of my favorite spots.
3 - So just as I get you settled in Tuscany, I slip back to . . . New Yawk City. Besides wanting to show you Rose's tale instead of having it told, what do you see in this slipback that's important? There are many telling clues here. 1. Rose seems like a mother defending her cubs. .. .even if they're adopted cubs. Also, she is the rightful 'mistress' of the villa as the wife of the master, not the sister. . . .but the sister's personality is such that she qoule claim that right. But she's not going to go all 'unnamed deWinter bride' and just let Mrs. Danvers push her around. 2. I already said the food description made me want to go to our favorite Italian place. . . .hope we can get to that soon. . .definitely want an invite if you cook!  3. John Battle was obsessed with the Owl at that point. . . .Rowden seems like he doesn't really believe in it. But, if I recall correctly, he wasn't real sure about it at the beginning of The Jade Owl and had to be convinced by Nick. . .or maybe I'm misremembering. Much meantion of pearls and warrants. . .surprised no rosebuds.  On to chapter 4. . . .I know I'm behind. . . this working thing cuts into my Kindle time! I'll re-read all the posts when I get done this section.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2010, 12:00:16 PM » |
|
Reading some pertinent earlier posts: Yes, between loveable Tadzio  and dispicable, Ezio.  Ed P Oh, I don't know. . . I think Ezio could be lovable in his way. Right now, though, it's just that it's all about him 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2010, 01:12:01 PM » |
|
Ann: About being behind - the only requirement I have laid on myself in this series is in The Jade Owl to begin like a bat out of hell so my readers will not want to put it down, but then ----- I want my readers to luxuriate it it - the back stroke, the bubble bath, something pleasurable, but lingering (nad not boiling oil  ). You're right. Ezio is loveable in his own way. Like all charcters, they all need an arc, and perhaps that's his, but in his own way. You're right. Rowden fell out with John Battle over the Bird and Rowden's reluctance to "carry-on" the work, which fell to someone else (Book 4), when we return to Old Pew in real time. (BTW, the look and feel of Columbia is right from my own experiences, and in fact (or a factoid), I had a falling out while I was on my doctoral tract with Professor Han Bielenstein (one of the great China Hands), who wanted me to carry his work in early Han studies and NOT Sung, where I went. So the fracture between John and Rowden has a basis in academic truth, although John is not based on Bielenstein. I mock Bielenstein, when Rose described Professor Tholjaggerstein. I also remembered one of my fellow students showing up for class early just to get the only left-handed desk-seat. And the wind always blew into the lecture hall. Kent Hall was magic to me, with its thousands of books. I'd get lost there for hours and the scapula bones with the inscriptions and the . . . oh well, I could write a book. 'nuff for now. Back to revising Bobby's Trace for a February reluanch. Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 07:33:46 PM » |
|
Chapter Four - La Giada Gufo
1 - Has Rafaelo changed in your eyes? Has Rose?
2 - Has the dots been connected for you as far as Nick and the Owl is concerned?
PS: I am constantly quoting Gilbert & Sullivan in all my novels for savoyard readers. This chapter has a silly arcane one. Agony. Rage. Despair. Which comes from the second Act of The Sorcerer.
"O, agony , rage, despair The woman has light brown hair And mine is as white as snow."
It's a minor little thing that adds to Rose's overall character, because also from The Sorcerer is "Now to the banquet we press," which Rose sang in The Third Peregrination. 1. I don't feel like I knew Rafael that well from before to judge how he's changed. . . .even so, he's, not surprisingly, a bit more 'lord of the manor' there in Italy than he was in China. Rose seems much less flighty. . .but then she began to 'serious up' as 'The Third Peregrination' progressed and she realized the weirdness was real. 2. Nick has a very close connection to the Owl. . . .apparently he can sense where it is located as he keeps talking about being covered in dirt. . . . .Rose, the seer, I think is getting an idea of how closely connected he is. . .not sure she, or any of the others, quite realized it before. Chapter Five - Sex (whoops) I mean - La Spezzia
1 - Are liking Ezio yet? (I'd be surprised).
2 - Were you surprised by the tidbit in his bed? I did kinda like him before. . . .not really happy with him at this point though. Surprised is not a strong enough word! But, in retrospect, I should have expected some villains to return!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 07:47:38 PM » |
|
Part IV - The Last Warrant (Don't you believe it for a moment)
Chapter I - Alcatraz
1 - How is Nicky shaping up as a father? and Simone as a mother?
2 - Nick's special talents excel here, but his mental journey serves to mingle not only the villainy of Pelasar, but thresh out some growing relationships? Between who(m)? Why are we on Alcatraz?
3 - Who's that woman? Any guesses?
PS: I wanted to have an Alcatraz scene in The Jade Owl but my agent had me cut it (good thing to), because this was the time for it. (Really it's Part III  ) 1. They're managing pretty well considering how they became 'parents'. They're keeping calm which is what's needed. 2. Why Alcatraz? 'Cause it's a quintessential San Francisco spot? Relationships: Win To and Sung Yi Di seem to be a fascination to Silky. . . got a feeling he's going to be a key to something later on. Chapter II - Niu-wa (pronounced Nyu-wah)
1 - What do we learn about John Battle here?
2 - What do we learn about Rowden Gray?
Battle seemed to be trying to expose the story with the fairy tale but didn't quite have the nerve so kept it secret. . . .not sure about Rowden. . . he doesn't seem quite as keen to traipse off to China this time. . . . Chapter III - A Look in the Mirror
1 - What is the problem between Nick and Rowden?
2 - What is happening to Nick?
R. seems to be much less willing to play the mind games Nick seems to like. . .and Nick's connection to the Owl is affecting their relationship. . .R. seems sure it's not quite 'safe'. Nick is clearly 'feeling' what the Owl feels while buried in Italy. Chapter IV - The Agent
1 - Is Ezio out of his element, do you think?
2 - What do you suppose the "Clot" joke means. If you don;t know, that's all right, I ask it again and again . . . and again.
3 - Do you think that the relics are still quiet in this Hall of quiet relics?
Yeah, Ezio is completely out of his league. . .Nick's not fooled even a little bit. re: clot. . . .word first used in R. and N.'s mindspeak . . .they're talking about transfusion: new blood. . .into the ki'ching maybe? Right now I don't think Ezio is a good candidate, but there's hope for him. Relics? Quiet? Duh! No. . . .clearly the claw made the painting move. . . . .also, a thought just occurred to me: In The TP, the Owl was needed . . . .maybe N. is so in tune with the Owl that the actual relic is not needed. . .just Nick's presence is good enough. . . . Chapter V - A Slippery Slope
1 - Does this little dinner at the Drake reminiscent of anything?
2 - Who is Ezio's stalker?
The dinner reminded me a little of Sydney's story of dining with Connie. . .when he later stole back what she'd taken. I first thought the 'stalker' might be Simone not in drag, but then hit on Griffith Jones. . . . (by the way, at one point you use the phrase "she's a trooper". I thought it was "she's a trouper"; a reference to a member of a theater troupe who could take any part as needed.) Chapter VI - By Invitation Only
(Can't have a Jade Owl book without a party - in fact, in this one we have a few)
1 - What is the structural reason for this author having a reception at this point?
2 - Does Ch;en Jr-ling (Thomas) appear changed
3 - What seems to be happening to Silky?
4 - Siblings, siblings, what's the problem between these siblings?
1. Well, it's a good way to put a lot of disparate characters in the same place and see how they interact and what is thereby revealed. 2. Hard to tell. . . .he's clearly jet lagged. . . .possibly a little overwhelmed as it appears the trip was a bit of a surprise followed by a whirlsind. . . . 3. Silky is definitely in the thrall of Yi-Di. . . or possibly the stone. . . by this time, presumably, Win to has talked to him about the stone. . . .he's supposed to 'acquire' it for Pelesar of course. 4. Lots of secrets between the sibs. . . .also possibly resentment and jealousy. In other words, normal siblings.  Chapter VII - Russian Hill
1 - Why Russian Hill? And what famous novel(s) is set on Barbary Lane in a house owned by Mrs. Anna Madrigal?
2 - Have some lights gone on regarding John Battle's little tale and the legend that Meng Ka-bao tells?
3 - What is a Chinese elemental?
4 - A lot to digest, but are the dots being further connected with this talk of eggs?
(BTW: I couldn't resist having the pot smoking scene on the porch as a throwback to Rowdy's hippy days, Nick's road days and a homage to Armistead's book)
1. Why not Russian Hill?  Not familiar with any other book, sorry.  2. Yeah. . .it's obviously at least in part the origin of all the freaky artifacts. . . I do wonder where the other egg is (assuming one is the red 'stone' Yi Di has). 3. Western elements are earth, air, fire, water. . . . elemental often is used to refer to base spirits, 'fantastic' beings associated with the 4 'elements'. . . I assume it's similar in Chinese mythology, but admit to woeful ignorance.  4. Dot's are kind of connecting, but I think it's still dotted lines. . . . . O.K. That's as far as I've gotten. . . must keep reading. . . . . 
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 07:59:32 PM by Ann in Arlington »
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 09:54:20 PM » |
|
Lot's of ground covered An.
Good catch "she's a trooper". my bad and I'll add it to the list when I get to a maintnance release. It's a malapropism. Of course, I could say I meant she was a state cop, but I'd be lying to cover my artisitc butt.
You're tracking along very well - most observations are right on.
The book in question on Rusiian Hil is the Great Gay Book of the 70's, Armistead Maupin's Tales of the Coty, which takes place at the exact setting and in the same building that Meng rents his rooms. If you ver want a great read, those 6 books are wonderful. of course, gay readers would know it immediately, but the books rode high on a general readership and then three of the books were television series staring Laura Linney before her glory days, and Olivia Dukakis playing the transexual Mrs. Madrigal.
You're correct with the elementals. Niu-wa is a Chinese elemental spirit, older thn the hills and perhaps even older than those.
I think you're getting the gist that The Jade Owl isn;t necessarily needed for triangulations etc. In TTP, Li K'ai-men was able to perform it without the Jade Owl.
You have the Nicky - Jade Owl connection correct. Funny that the bird hasn;t appeared yet in the novel. Funny, that.
Silky is pivotal. In fact, where The ade Owl has a limited set of characters, and TTP many more, The Dragon's Pool is a grand opera when it comes to the number of characters. I know. I'm juggling them and their union while I'm writing The people's Treasure. Have you eve dalt with the Fictional Character Local No. 999? They're so demanding.
Yep, keep readin'
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ann in Arlington
Inmate # 65
Global Moderator
Status: Shakespeare
   
Offline
Gender: 
Arlington, VA
Posts: 32192
Go Nats!
|
 |
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2010, 07:08:03 PM » |
|
Chapter VIII & IX - Mr. Firestone's Report & Mooning the Honey
(one of my favorite 2 Chapters) 1 - Our first view of China in this book, the slipback to Yang-shuo should disorient you a bit. Did it? Only briefly. . . I figured out quickly what you were doing 2 - How do you like Gil "Featherduster" Canto now?
Clearly not a 'field' guy. . . . .he could be very annoying if one had to spend any length of time with him 3 - Why is this chapter set in the rain?
Uh. . . .to annoy Canto? 4 - If nothing else, you've learned the Chinese word for BUS, which I find funny - gung-gung-ch'ua. Grin ah. . .so that's what it means. 5 - Did you enjoy the reunion with Charlie and then with Little Cricket? I mean, without these guys, where would the Legacy series be?
Please remind me: Cricket was the 'signpost' which clearly affected him, but more so he was affected by the relics left behind. .. .which were what, exactly? 6 - If you had to guess, what Dickens novel inspired "Cricket in the Homestead?"
It's totally Mrs. Haversham's house. . . . . . . 7 - Did you notice that you slipbacked a second time (a double slipback) when Cricket goes to Mt. Li? (You two levels deep and back now)
yep. . . . it followed. .. ...having Sidney's letter in italics helped emphasize that we were back to the here and now 8 - What are gifts of Mt. Li?" I detail them later, but wouldn;t it be nice if you can guess? yeah.. . .don't know. . . .but I guess it's not something that I forgot.. . . .  BTW: The double slipback - Rowden reading the letter, then slipping to Sydney in Yang-shou/Gui-lin and then Cricket slipping back to Mt. Li, and then sipping up and out to the letter and to Rose's appearance, whew! is a circus aerial acting for any author. Only time will tell if I got it right. (It's like Rodney Dangerfield's Triple Lindy).
===================================
On to the next part. . . . .
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 07:10:20 PM by Ann in Arlington »
|
Logged
|
Ann Von Hagel Arlington, VA 
|
|
|
|
Edward C. Patterson
|
 |
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2010, 07:21:38 PM » |
|
Ann - the relics in Little Crickets box are --- Han Lin's ring, the Pearl pendant and the tomb key. Cricket was upset by being the human psignpost, but Charlie's protectiveness and his jealousy are also evident.
The rain does annoy Canto, but it gave me the chance to describe the market and streets of Gui-lin in the rain, just as I saw them. Canto, BTW, is a larger than life pain i the *ss, but he is also a crucial character to the proceedings - not only in thie book, but in the next one.
Yep, Great Expectations. I try to always doff my hat to my mentors, and Dickens is one. I sometimes slip into a more archaic turn of phrase because of that, but generally I editing it out or tone it down in revision (but sometimes not).
The triple slipback is a homage to Stephen King. He does a triple Lindy in one of the most brilliant books written in the 20th Century - The Gunslinger (The Dark Tower Book I). King is also a mentor, although he's my junior by a few months. Whenever I am stuck at how to handle a scene, I turn to King and dissect one of his, and then analyse what he's done and the effect it generates. Then I'll approach my material again. I never duplicate it (nor would I want to). However, he provides me with techiniques that transcend the usual rules of grammar and usage that sometimes bogs down creativity.
Ed P
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|