Week 3 (Part IV - Chapters 1 through 8)

[Edward C. Patterson]

Part 4 - The Spirit Keepers has fifteen chapters, so I'm pacing us better by splitting it over 2 weeks 1-8 and 9-15.

Chapter One - Conspiracies

1 - Rose is in rare form here (my opinion). Why is she so upset with Rowden?

2 - Why is she upset with Ezio?

3 - Do you think Rose's temperatment is contrived here? Why is contradictory?

4 - How does Nick spook Rose?

Chapter Two - One Pip Short of a full Ch'i-tang

1 - Who is the PIP in the Chapter title? Crazy as Pigs on a Cliff again, 

2 - Why are Rowden and Rose tired of questing?

3 - Is Rose's vision of the exposition familiar?

Chapter Three - From the Perch

1 - What's the difference between a glimmer and a super-glimmer?

2 - How did you like the slipback in this chapter? What did you learn?

3 - Why do you think Nick is so tender to Silky? What paralells do I draw?

Chapter Four - Mother DeFluerry

1 - Not a question, but the opening of this chapter just had to be written. 

2 - What do you think Simone saw through the brass spectacles?

Chapter Five - Brunch on the Wharf

1 - Notice the dialog in this chapter. What language are they speaking? Why do I resist it?

2 - Ezio and Tadzio are as different as night from day . . . BUT, they are connected here - genetically. How? Do they care for each other and to what degree?

3 - Why do I have them at Fishman's Wharf?

Chapter Six - Commission of Darkness

1 - That I re-introduce Griffen in the slipback is no accident. How has Griffen's sight restoration improve his character?

2 - Weowka's song is about?

3 - How do you explain this new type of glimmer, between Nick and Tadzio, that which I call - the touch? Can you speculate its source and how it happened? (It's there, but veiled)

Chapter Seven - China Doll

(I hope you loved this Chapter, because when I wrote it, I did a dance)

1 - Where did I come up with the ingredients for the Anti-aging potion?

2 - Why would I create a Chinese herbalist shop now?

3 - Ch'u Bai-dui is a crabby old guy. Does he remind you of someone?

4 - What relationship(s) are developing between Master Marsh and Sung Yi-di?

5 - Isn't it nice that Silky has a boy friend?

Chapter Eight - On the Boil

This is the first time we're back at the Drake's bar since Rowden sucked down his Dewars.

1 - Why are the brother speaking Italian all of a sudden?

2 - What's Connie Wilson's game here?

3 - Are these three being watched and by whom? And how?

A word on "Crazy as pigs on a cliff," which you read in The Third Peregrination. Here's another little snippet of where the same expression occurs again.
---------------------------------------
Fu Lin-t’o closed his eyes, Li K’ai-men rubbing his back. He understood, and yet not. He had heard of such mysterious abilities among the fa-shr — the studied art of the Seer. However, he guessed that the jade relic had given his heart-song this gift, if a gift it could be called.
“Perhaps it shall pass,” Li said.
“You know it shall not, Nan Ya.”
“Regard it as a gift.”
“To what use?” Fu asked. “I see the world as you do . . .  as Ko-ling sees it.”
“There you’re wrong. Ko-ling sees many things that we don’t, eh, Ko-ling?”
“Surely, you give me too much credit, master,” Ko-ling said.
“Credit? I don’t praise you for it. In fact, your perception of things enhances our knowledge of the world.”
Ko-ling bowed.
“It’s true that I see the crickets in the corner,” Ko-ling said, “while you see comets as they fall.”
“Comets?” Li said, thinking that Ko-ling made a poor reference to the Emperor’s fallen horse. “What made you say comets?”
“I don’t know, master. It just came to me. Perhaps I’m crazy.”
“As crazy as pigs on a cliff,” Fu Lin-t’o said. He laughed. “Surely, I don’t know why I said that.”

- The Nan Tu - Souther Swallow Book II
-----------------------------------------------------
But sure, I do. 

[dnagirl]

Chapter One - Conspiracies

1 - Rose is in rare form here (my opinion). Why is she so upset with Rowden?  She’s upset because Rowden has sent Sydney to China.  She believes that Sydney should be involved with the exhibit because he was the one who restored the Sisters.

2 - Why is she upset with Ezio?  I think a couple of reasons.  She’s mad at him for putting her up in a different hotel that she hates.  She also does not like the way that he is setting up the display of the Sisters.  She doesn't "see" it as correct.

3 - Do you think Rose's temperatment is contrived here? Why is contradictory?  I’m not sure.  I think she’s a little reluctant to have the ch’i-tang reunited.  I think part of her doesn’t want to get caught up in the mess again and just wants to live “normally” in Italy.

4 - How does Nick spook Rose?  He shows her something.  He gives her some sort of vision.

Chapter Two - One Pip Short of a full Ch'i-tang

1 - Who is the PIP in the Chapter title? Crazy as Pigs on a Cliff again,     Sydney.

2 - Why are Rowden and Rose tired of questing?  Because they both now have families.  They are no longer floating singularities, they are part of something bigger.  Rowden has Audrey and Amy and the baby and Rose has Raffaelo, Ezio, Tadzio and the girls.  These people are more important to them than the quest.  Or at least should be.

3 - Is Rose's vision of the exposition familiar?  It is the same vision that the group had when they went through the portal to Li Kai-men (sp?) of the Sisters on the ridge of Chicken Cage Hill.

[Edward C. Patterson]

DNAGirl:

Tracking it right along. The temperament as I see it is contrive to some exptent, so she can plant herself as the mover and ehaker of the new exposition (which is succeeding to do). The hint here is that she's upset that Sydney isn't there to help with the new exhibit, but isn;t impressed with the current exhibit (which was designed by . . . Sydney).

Family is key to this book, and acts as a powerful counter weight to the quest. However, the quest is a "family" quest and, as such, creates all sorts of strife.

Nick spooks Rose by describing Clarissa, a person he has never met, but speaks as if he had. "She is pretty." How would he know. Glimmer, pehrpas, but . . . read on.

The array of the banners on Chicken Cage Hill is important to Rose, and . . . is important for the next book also. (I never waste a good . . . array, ahem). 

Ed P

[dnagirl]

You know, even though Rowden is the CG of the museum where the Sisters exposition would be, I just always assumed that Rose was really in charge because...well...she's Rose.  I guess that's why I didn't see it as her attitude as being contrived.

[dnagirl]

Chapter Three - From the Perch

1 - What's the difference between a glimmer and a super-glimmer?  Nick has control over a glimmer, he is in charge and can use it.  With a super-glimmer, he has no control at all.

2 - How did you like the slipback in this chapter? What did you learn?  John Battle knew about the warrant, and he knew he’d be passing it to Nick.  Poor little Silky was an abused child.

3 - Why do you think Nick is so tender to Silky? What paralells do I draw?  I think Nick is tender to Silky because it’s what he wanted from his own father and didn’t get.  I also think he has genuine affection and love for him.  I’m not really sure about the parallels you are drawing?  Five family members abusing Silky and the five members of the ch’i-tang?  Yeah, I’m not sure here.

[Edward C. Patterson]

As you perhaps sens, in The Dragon's Pool we not only have many more paranormal and "hoodoo" events, but also the characters are developed even closer to the bone. You got the parallel between Nick and John Battle and his opposite wish for Silky, but Nick also sees things in Silky that disturb him, much as John saw things in Nick. The five abusive membes of Silky's family is just that. No parallel there to the ch'i-tang. Ch'i-tang's, btw, by my rules (since they are my devices, alhough they have some elements of Ka-tets - see King) can be more than 5 or less than 5. In fact, the determinant of ch'i-tang membership is sort of a baptism - that is touching or imbibing The Tears of Guan-yin. When and if you ever read the Southern Swallow series, you'll see that the ch'i-tang there forms in exactly the same way. By those rules, Griffen is a ch'i-tang member, while Rose is not. But Rose was indoctrinated into the "water" club at Lung-hua Temple during a section of the novel that I cut out in revision (when the ch'i tang underwent instruction with Meng Ka-bao). I had a whole section in the draft and 1st revision detailing the ch'i-tang's instruction, but decided (and I think rightly so), that it would be better to "show" the results of the training by leaving that section out. It's inclusion would have made The Third Peregrination longer than The Bible. God is my agent, not my competition. 

Ed P

[dnagirl]

Chapter Four - Mother DeFluerry

1 - Not a question, but the opening of this chapter just had to be written.  Grin  I love Mommy Simone.

2 - What do you think Simone saw through the brass spectacles?  Italy?  Raffaelo's sister?  Ezio and Tadzio?

Chapter Five - Brunch on the Wharf

1 - Notice the dialog in this chapter. What language are they speaking? Why do I resist it?  English.  Why do you resist what?

2 - Ezio and Tadzio are as different as night from day . . . BUT, they are connected here - genetically. How? Do they care for each other and to what degree?  Genetically they have the same father.  I think they do care for each other.  I actually think that Ezio cares more for Tadzio than the other way around.  I think Ezio's ego/swagger has turned off Tadzio quite a bit.

3 - Why do I have them at Fishman's Wharf?  The only reason I can think of is because they are tourists and it is a huge tourist location in SF.

[Edward C. Patterson]

Well, we're in the maelstrom now and some of the answers become more evident.

First, a writerly style point and  global rule in my Universe. Ezio and Tadzio are speaking Italian. Why would they speak English when together? Eh?  Yet, to maintain a way for the reader to understand what's going on, I have them strictly eschewing Italian, although I have them speaking with a slight inflection (precious dialog to hint that they are not really speaking English). However, again my rule, when an English speaker comes into the scene (which see . . . coming up), I have them interjecting Italian words. Another example of this is in The Third Peregrination in similar foreign dialog scenes between Charlie and Little Cricket and Mrs. K'ao and Minister Ch'en. Other authors get around this by inventing a concept to accommodate it. Tolkien announces when some characters are speaking in "the common speech," and other authors do the same.

Correct. Simone sees Zia Berenice and . . . I wont spoil it.

The brothers Tostacaroni and their relationship is very important for the tone of this tale. They are devoted to each other, but obviously Papa treated them different from one another. Tadzio is obviously the more intelligent, and Ezio displays a touch of jealousy on that score, constantly regarding Tadzio's university education as something useless. But the beat goes on.

The answer for the setting at Fisherman's wharf relies on some knowledge of San Francisco. I'm a stickler for geographical accuracy, even when it doesn't seem to matter or it operates behind the scenes (In The Academician, I am absolutely reliable in the placement of the Yellow River flowing South of the city of K'ai-feng, not that the reader would care, but now that river runs  North of the city. However, if a sinologist ever read the tale, they would go Aha -if I got it wrong. It's like having Hummingbirds in Germany, whee they aren't indiginous  ). Fisherman's Wharf is near Ghiradelli Square, which is near Wewoka Jones' silver shop and the terminus of the Hyde Street cable car, all important locales for the next few chapters).

Despite all this chatter from author, how's the reading going? Enjoying it?

Ed P

[dnagirl]

Yes, I am enjoying it very much!

[dnagirl]

Chapter Six - Commission of Darkness

1 - That I re-introduce Griffen in the slipback is no accident. How has Griffen's sight restoration improve his character?  It’s improved his painting, that’s for sure.  He seems to also be a little more…I can’t think of the proper word…aware?  That’s not quite what I’m looking for, but as close as I can explain at the moment.

2 - Weowka's song is about?   No idea.  I want corn chowder and frybread now, thank you very much.

3 - How do you explain this new type of glimmer, between Nick and Tadzio, that which I call - the touch? Can you speculate its source and how it happened? (It's there, but veiled)  Maybe it has to do with the dragon claw.  I don’t know, I seem to be struggling with this part and connecting all the dots.

Chapter Seven - China Doll

(I hope you loved this Chapter, because when I wrote it, I did a dance)

1 - Where did I come up with the ingredients for the Anti-aging potion?  Uh, the internet?

2 - Why would I create a Chinese herbalist shop now?  To show that Xiao Yi-di intends to harm someone.  To make us think that she is possessed by the soul of um…Niu-wa (sp?).  We had some foreshadowing earlier in the book that Xiao Yi-di may not be all she seems, but man I keep thinking you’re trying to trick me.

3 - Ch'u Bai-dui is a crabby old guy. Does he remind you of someone?  He reminds me of a lot of people.

4 - What relationship(s) are developing between Master Marsh and Sung Yi-di?  He’s her errand boy, but he’s also becoming her strongarm.

5 - Isn't it nice that Silky has a boy friend?  Yes, it made me smile.

Chapter Eight - On the Boil

This is the first time we're back at the Drake's bar since Rowden sucked down his Dewars.

1 - Why are the brother speaking Italian all of a sudden?  Ok, now you have me confused.  You said they were speaking Italian before, even though it was English.  They’re speaking English here too, with a little Italian thrown in.  I assume they are really speaking English, so as not to alienate Connie.

2 - What's Connie Wilson's game here?  Well, she’s already got Ezio in her pocket, or at least thinks she does.  She’s trying to get information out of Tadzio as well.  Perhaps convince him to come to her “dark” side as well.

3 - Are these three being watched and by whom? And how?  Nick is watching them and he is using the “touch” to do it.

[Edward C. Patterson]

Yep, Griffen has a keen eye.

I will trasnlate the poem once Ann comes throuh it.

Well keep trying to connect the dots. It has to do with something that Nick said to Rose in a previous Chapter - something about Clarissa.

You're correct. I searched Chinese herbal books, but they were all high-fulutin essays on curatives. So I decided to go on the interent to a Chinese pharmacy, selected on curative and list the inredints. I was amused, so I thought it would amuse others. I still would like to know where one gets Magoo stuff.

Yes, Sung Yi di is tricky. Ch'u Bai-dui is one of those characters that live in the "aged Chinese, I know lots of stuf" zone. Now, with the old Grandmother dead, I need another such character. He comes into his own in Book Four.

There's a lot more going on between Sung Yi-di and Silky (and no, I'm not getting kiky).

What I mean that they start speaking Italian, is that heir ocassional Italian word in their English dialog is permitted now as Connie is on the scene.

Connie's game is simple. She wants access to the exhibit and now she has two posible paths to it. Remember, she's not near John Battle hall by court order. Where Gillenhaal?

Yes, Nick is not only observing through the touch, he's manipulating through it.

I think I mentioned this tidbit before, but my name in Mandarin is    ....    Sung Yi-di.

[dnagirl]

There's a lot more going on between Sung Yi-di and Silky (and no, I'm not getting kiky).

Ok, OT side story.  I giggled when I read what you typed above (especially the bolded part).  When I was young, probably 5-6-7 years old, my parents used to play these mix tapes that my uncle had made when we were in the car.  And we were in the car a LOT because we were always going on trips and camping.  One of the songs on one of the tapes was "Superfreak" by Rick James.  Because of my little child ears, and at that time, lack of knowledge, I always thought Rick was singing, "She's a very keekee girl."  Not that I knew what keekee meant, I guess I thought that maybe it was slang for cool.  Anyway, when I read that typo it just made me laugh.

Now, on topic, the only thing Nick said to Rose about Clarissa was that she was pretty.  But, reading back, Nick did pick out Tadzio in one of his super-glimmers (or was it a dream, heck if I can remember).  Is it because Tadzio has been in close proximity to the Owl?

I get the language thing now.

[Edward C. Patterson]

DNAGirl:

Tadzio was close to the Owl? You're getting warm now. 

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter One - Conspiracies

1 - Rose is in rare form here (my opinion). Why is she so upset with Rowden?

2 - Why is she upset with Ezio?

3 - Do you think Rose's temperatment is contrived here? Why is contradictory?

4 - How does Nick spook Rose?

1.  She mostly seems perturbed to find that Sydney is not there. . . . .

2.  Ezio didn't book her into her expected hotel. . .she doesn't see that there's really a good reason. . . but of course Ezio, by now, realizes she knows who his "American girlfriend" is. . . .at least, she doesn't know the girlfriend is Connie, but Ezio knows she wouldn't be happy to find it out. . . .so that's the real reason he didn't put her up at the Drake.

3.  I think Rose is happy to see old friends, but can't help but be reminded or their previous adventures which were not all fun and games. . . .I think perhaps she's a bit worried that she'll get caught up in it again. . . .besides, she's confused by why Tadzio 'heard' something from the talon/fang.

4.  She's the seer so perhaps she sees the Owl in him. . . .and it worries her. . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Rose's contradiction is that she is mad that Sydney's not there (as he's the best) and yet she's critical of the current exhibit (which is Sydney's). A bit of spite.

You're right about Ezio. As for Nick's spookng her. ick speaks about Clarissa Silvestri as if he has seen her.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Well, you know one can be jealous of and yet admire a person. . . .I can totally see Rose admiring Sydney for his 'conservator' skills but feeling she could do a better job at 'set design' as it were. . . .or she really likes the layout but wishes she'd thought of it as it's supposed to be 'her' show.  People are funny, you know.

I did catch that about Nick. . . .I guess it didn't strike me as weird since it's so clear that Nick is totally operating on a different level than the rest of us.  So I just totally accepted it. . .I can see, though, that Rose might not quite realize how far 'out there' Nick really is and therefor be surprised to have him talk familiarly about people he's never met.

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Two - One Pip Short of a full Ch'i-tang

1 - Who is the PIP in the Chapter title? Crazy as Pigs on a Cliff again,  Grin

Duh. . .Sydney. . . .and were you thinking of Sherlock Homes, The Five Orange Pips?

2 - Why are Rowden and Rose tired of questing?

Another duh. . . .they've got families now. . . .and the last time was more dangerous/scary than the first. . . . . .

3 - Is Rose's vision of the exposition familiar?

Triple duh. . . . .it's how they saw them all when they went into the past in the last book. 

Boy, the questions for this chapter were really easy, teach. 

[Edward C. Patterson]

Deceptively so. 

Perhaps the Pip s back to Great Expecttions.  Yes, Sydney.

And this trip (coming) will be even more dangerous.

And Yes, that's how she saw them in the last book . . . but, is that the way they should be . . . ah, bt that's a question for Book 4.

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

Perhaps the Pip s back to Great Expecttions.

But there was but one "Pip" in Great Expectations. . . . .and I'm not seeing anyone called Phillip Pirrip. . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Ah, you need to go to Turning Idolater for that - Well, not Phillip Pirrup, but Phillip Flaxen. 

Ed P

[Ann in Arlington]

I have that. . . . . .somewhere in the deep recesses of my Kindle. . . .

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Three - From the Perch

1 - What's the difference between a glimmer and a super-glimmer?

2 - How did you like the slipback in this chapter? What did you learn?

3 - Why do you think Nick is so tender to Silky? What paralells do I draw?

Seems like he has the ability to control or direct a super-glimmer. . . . and there's an element of being able to see the future, or at least, something about the person that even the person himself doesn't know.

The slip back gives insight into Silky's past but, more, into Nick's past and why he has the feelings he does for his father and for Griffen. . . .I didn't realize he'd known Griffen so long. . .

Nick knows what Silky has gone through. . . and has a real good idea of what he'll go through. . . he does truly see him as a son and heir to the Battle warrants. . . .

[Ann in Arlington]

Chapter Four - Mother DeFluerry

1 - Not a question, but the opening of this chapter just had to be written.  Grin

2 - What do you think Simone saw through the brass spectacles?

Simone as mama bear. . .what a sight!

It's pretty clear that there is more to those brass rims than meets the eye (ha ha).  He was a spectator at some event. . . . .almost seems like he's seeing the Tosti estate in Italy. . . . .

[Edward C. Patterson]

Right on Ann.

A super-glimmer, however, is less controlable. It seems to come unbidden and you go with it and hope for the best. Th Jade Owl and the ch'i powers-that-be dictate when a member of the ch''i-tang is struck with one.

Wewoka was John Battles housemaid and cook, although she becam attached to the Pierce household. We know very littl about Nick's mother (but that's what we get in Book 4).

Ed P

[Edward C. Patterson]

Got it. Simone is sitting on he hill overlooking Fiesole near "pain in the *ss field" (Campo Culadura).


Ed Patterson