USED Kindles for low income / at-risk children?

[pfaoro]

The average reading level in the US is 9th Grade at best, which is horrifying.  As somebody who absolutely lives for my Kindle and also has a high level of commitment to education (which, in America, currently stinks), I'd like to make a suggestion:

Children, given the opportunity, love to learn and love to read.  I'm sure there are a fairly large number of Kindles that are returned or exchanged for various reasons.  I also know (who doesn't?) that there are a huge number of free or very low cost e-books available.

It occurs to me that Amazon / Kindle, either on its own or in cooperation with another organization (Oprah Winfrey, since she has so glowingly spoken of Kindle; Bill & Melinda Gates, who are also big on education; the Knight Foundation, etc., etc., come to mind,) might set up a program by which used or refurbished Kindles, and Kindles with minor defects that can't be sold, are provided to high-risk / low income children or schools at no cost, with the restriction that downloads be limited to free public domain titles (or maybe the massive number of titles between 99¢ and, let's say $1.99, IF there is a pre-funded account attached, though there are obvious risks and problems involved with such accounts.)

I recently had my debit card information stolen, so my Kindle / Amazon account didn't have a valid card number until I got my new one.  During that period of two or three weeks, though, I was still able to download free e-books so I know at least that much is possible.

Everything that can be done to raise the literacy level in America should be done, and Amazon has a perfect opportunity.

Kindle's feedback address is kindle-feedbackATamazon.com.  I wrote to them with the idea when it first struck me and I encourage others who feel likewise to write to them also.  It is important, though, that emails on the subject NOT be perceived as heavy-handed.  Amazon is doing a wonderful thing by spreading the availability of the written word at generally rock-bottom prices and pressure tactics – if they are taken as such – are probably an effective way to kill a good idea.

Let’s see if we can spread the word!!!

[Dana]

If the Kindle could be made near indestructible, I would be all for this.  I doubt a regular Kindle would last a week in such an environment unfortunately. 

[raven312]

I have to disagree.  We're talking about an age group who regularly uses Nintendo DX's and the like.  They are used to micro-technology, moreso than we were.  If they learn to love reading I would think they would take VERY good care of the device that brings them that much pleasure.  I think it's a worthwhile pursuit.  If Amazon was going to dispose of them anyway, it would be a good tax write-off and benefit someone else, a potential win/win.

[Margaret]

If the Kindle could be made near indestructible, I would be all for this.  I doubt a regular Kindle would last a week in such an environment unfortunately.  

I have to agree with you.  I am an elementary school librarian and I see how our books suffer from the wear and tear given to them by children.  I don't think they do it on purpose, for the most part they are just not used to treating things carefully.  A Kindle is a much more delicate device than a book and I think most children would not give it the care it requires, unless they were strongly supervised by an adult.  Pfaoro certainly has the right idea. Reading material needs to get into the hands of children who are at risk.  For the time being though, it may be wiser and less frustrating to stick with old fashioned books.  Another thought may be to donate those used Kindles to neighborhood centers where the kids could be supervised while they used them. The Kindles may have a better chance at survival and the kids could still get to read on something they would see as cooler than a regular book.

[Ann in Arlington]

yeah. . . .kids are used to technology and figure stuff out really quickly. . . .that doesn't mean most parents would want to let them out of the house with their expensive equipment. . . . .and, face it, stuff happens and kids just aren't as careful as adults  -- on the whole, of course.  One can find exceptions to prove every rule.  But I agree that it would be great for Amazon to develop a hardier version aimed at kids. . . . .

[racheldeet]

While it's a kind idea, younger kids, I think, in large numbers, would do a good job of breaking the pretty fragile Kindle. Older kids can't be trusted with anything (I went to a low-income, tiny high school, where anything the school got was stolen or broken. I watched kids in my honors classes stick pencils in CD drives while they were closing to break them.)

If you're talking individuals, then it'd sort of be required to fall into the "fill out a lengthy application regarding financial status and then wait for six months" trap, which is frustrating at best and very disheartening the longer it goes on. Not to mention that these sorts of programs end up being offered only in large cities, leaving those "in the middle of nowhere" who lack access to libraries out in the cold.

It's not a bad idea, but I think it's not as simple to implement it as it might seem.

[pfaoro]

I grant some of these points and disagree with others:

A Kindle isn't all that fragile.  I've inadvertently dropped mine more than once without trouble, which is obviously not the same as deliberately trying to do damage or kicking it down the sidewalk.  Still, that observation does argue well for teaching kids to take care of the devices and thus having them distributed judiciously through the schools and supervised.

As for the current generation that "uses Nintendo DX's and the like", I think that, too, is a favorable indicator.  A child in my own family who claims she "hates" to read fell instantly in love with my Kindle precisely because it IS a computer.

I fully understand what our librarian friend writes (my mother was also a librarian), but consider this: the reason books in school and public libraries are in such terrible condition is largely, if not entirely, because they are being used.

At the risk of sounding off from my soapbox, may I suggest we focus on what can be accomplished rather than all the reasons it won't work.

None of us have any $$$ risk involved, and I think the engineering types at Amazon have the skills to make sure the devices are sufficiently sturdy, so it seems to me the main thing is to let the company know the idea has merit and support by writing to: <kindle-feedbackATamazon.com>   

[raven312]

I thought I read somewhere in the past day or two that Amazon is indeed going to try this type of program in low income schools.  That's where I was coming from.  You wouldn't just give a child one of these and have them go at it.  It would seem to me that (depending upon the child's age) you would sit with them and teach them how to use the Kindle.  As intuitive as it is for us who read, I don't think anyone can reasonably expect a child with low reading level to know what to do with it at first glance.  I wouldn't give one to them to take home, either - that should occur somewhere way down the line, when you could identify a child who now LOVES to read and handles the Kindle like the tool it is.  I've had a library card since I was four, the youngest in my town at the time (maybe still - I have never checked.)  I was also one of the very few kids who my mother could take the the neighborhood library and leave there (you can't leave your children unsupervised, of course.)  The librarians loved that I loved to read at so young an age and they enjoyed having me there and challenging me with different genres of books and they always knew that if they sat me down some place, that's where I'd be until that book was finished.  Surely there are more children out there who, if given the chance, would love to experience that.

[pfaoro]

I completely agree that Kindles shouldn't be distributed to children who are too young to take care of them, and perhaps haven't yet passed the Dick-and-Jane stage of reading development.  Further, I, too, recoil in horror at the prospect of such a program becoming a morass of grant writing.

Most importantly, though, is this:  all but one of the people who have participated in this thread have supported the idea, albeit with some qualifications, and even the one holdout wasn't negative so much as noncommittal. How many have actually written to Amazon endorsing the idea???  That is why I posted the subject in the first place.

Not a single child will benefit if we sit around like so many Sunday morning "talking heads" without doing something!
If you do write to Amazon (and hopefully write to your Kindle colleagues asking them to do likewise) I'd appreciate a private message letting me know you've done so,

[marianneg]

Amazon is a for-profit business, not a charitable organization.  If you have an established organization that works with kids that could use Kindles to help them learn, then, by all means, contact Amazon to see if there is someone you could work with on this.  Otherwise, I don't think it's realistic to think that if enough people write vague emails to say Amazon should be doing "something" we will see Jeff Bezos handing out Kindles at the local Boys and Girls Clubs after work.  The way to start something like this is to partner with the company and do the legwork, not send in emails asking for free Kindles.

[pfaoro]

Countless for-profit companies, for equally countless reasons, engage in charitable activities on their own initiative under IRS 501(c) regulations.  There is a vast difference between "writing vague emails", a.k.a. a spam attack, and simply (and politely!) letting Amazon know the idea has support

[KindleChickie]

I dont see a family who cant afford their light bill or send their kids to bed hungry letting one of their kids have a kindle when it could be pawned so easily.  Not trying to bring anyone down, just I come from poverty and dont see it happening.

[BTackitt]

About 2 weeks ago or so, someone posted a link to an article where a reading teacher at an elementary school had 11-15 Kindles in her classroom, and was having the kids read via kindle, and it was working out great! I want to say the age group was 3rd grade, so we are talking 8-9 years old.

[rbbyrbsn]

The average reading level in the US is 9th Grade at best, which is horrifying. 

[/quote

I'm pretty sure the standardize tests are only grade 8 would that make grade 9 a achievement ?

[ReconDelta]

I don't believe the Kindle is a device suitable for this type of endeavor. 

Perhaps a project similar to OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) could develop a cheap eInk device, to distribute.

Of course, there is already an abundance of free books available across the US, and most of the world, yet the kiddies still do not read.   So would a new electronic toy make a difference?   Probably not.



 
 

[Dana]

I have to disagree.  We're talking about an age group who regularly uses Nintendo DX's and the like.  They are used to micro-technology, moreso than we were.  If they learn to love reading I would think they would take VERY good care of the device that brings them that much pleasure.  I think it's a worthwhile pursuit.  If Amazon was going to dispose of them anyway, it would be a good tax write-off and benefit someone else, a potential win/win.

As a parent of 3 who have/had Nintendo DS, DSi, and other variations, even if a child really loves an item, and has more technical knowledge to use it than the parents, and is reasonably careful, it's still likely to get stepped on, sat on, stolen, etc.  Those items are also more durable than a Kindle. Plus these technically savvy kids are used to touch screens and are likely to forget the Kindle isn't a touchscreen and damage the screen right out of the gate.  The rooms/lockers of some of these kids can be really scary and even beloved items get shuffled around in the mix.

A Kindle isn't all that fragile.  I've inadvertently dropped mine more than once without trouble, which is obviously not the same as deliberately trying to do damage or kicking it down the sidewalk.  Still, that observation does argue well for teaching kids to take care of the devices and thus having them distributed judiciously through the schools and supervised.   

We've seen too many stories of the screens being cracked by rolling over on them in soft bed, having a malfunction with a hinged cover, scratching the screen when gently trying to remove a fleck of dirt, and other mishaps that were accidents and not intentional abuse.  That's why so many that don't purchase warranties for other items, purchase one for this delicate and much handled item.  School books, desks, crayons, pencils, walls and basically anything else that doesn't walk all show what kids do to items even though they've been "taught" how to treat items.

There are ways around the "delicate" issue...  There are already hard plastic covers to protect the Kindle from water that would greatly help, but that's another expense.

One on one reading tutoring would be wonderful where both can read on their Kindles and the adult would be immediately available in case of a freeze up or some other problem with the Kindle might pop up.  But I just can't imagine letting such an expensive item leave the school grounds.  We all protect our Kindles with covers, special bags, etc........ to think of a naked Kindle in a child's backpack is scary.

Our schools can't properly maintain their buildings and basic classroom needs have to be filled by the parents.  It's just hard to imagine the system being able to oversee the care and use of a fleet of expensive Kindles.  But this might be another area where parents can form a team to raise funds for eBooks and sit with the kids while they read.......  Of course in the kids in the worst shape, there won't be many parents to volunteer.  Many aren't interested or don't have the time since they are working and trying to keep their heads above water.

A reading program that has worked well in some schools is for a volunteer to bring in a service dog that is trained to "listen" when read to.....  this has really given the kids confidence and made them want to read.  This is also a two on one approach....  (dog, trainer, child)  which limits the number of children who can participate.  Maybe the Kindle situation I mentioned above could handle a handful of kids at a time....

[Todd]

If you want a low cost solution? Let them read DTB's!! 

[HappyGuy]

Or they can download Kindle for the PC onto their One Laptop per Child laptop.

[Raffeer]

Well said Tod.
Amazon would do better donating DTB's to schools, libraries and youth centers that are being eviscerated by the present economic situation.

[LindaW]

I live in an area of middle to higher income families, and the schools are considered really good (I have no kids, so I have no comparison) - but I can tell you there is a major rash of i-pod and i-phone thefts in all of these "nice" schools.  The schools are telling everyone not to bring any of these or gaming items to school.  The thefts are out of control - and I, for one, just can't figure out why - everyone of the kids that I know who go to these schools have everything they could possibly want - it's beyond me.  But anyway, I would worry about theft more than anything.  

[pfaoro]

There is a saying that a nation is best measured by how it treats it's children.  There is also a Yiddish proverb that goes "A child without parents is an orphan; a nation without children is likewise an orphan."  

In looking over the posts that have been made since I started the thread a few days ago I've been encouraged by and large by the generally positive tone in most of them, and moreso those who have offered solid suggestions to improve the idea.  By the same token, I am not one of those do-gooders who insist that everyone who has disagreed is wrong.  Indeed, a discussion  in which all agree isn't a discussion at all.

However:

Not to claim that my idea was perfectly phrased, there is too much focus on what is wrong with the idea rather than what might be accomplished.

It was nothing less than snide to suggest that the idea would result in Jeff Bezoz handing out Kindles at the local Boys and Girls Clubs.

It was presumptuous to suggest that every low income kid has a laptop.

The story of Feb. 13 (out of San Francisco) reported that Amazon was planning to give away Kindles in a marketing move against iPod.  That is a vastly different thing than donating devices to deserving kids or schools, especially since the article clearly stated that the program was intended to encourage people to buy profitable content.  There is nothing wrong with selling something at a reasonable profit, but  that also is vastly different from encouraging children to read.

Recommending that kids are better of with DTB's is to recommend laziness: why learn to read if you can get the material read to you?  Kids love to learn, but they will coast if allowed to do so.

Whether or not standardized testing is done at the 8th grade level or not misses the point entirely.  Is a 8th grade or 9th grade reading level something to be proud of???  The newspaper industry, by its own studies, has to write on a 9th grade level just to maintain readership.  

As a personal opinion, I submit that it's shameful that by a broad margin the first and most widely read section of a newspaper is the Sports section, closely followed by local news. National and International news?  Not even close.  Arts and Humanities? Barely a blip on the screen. Why??? Try literacy: those sections and the concepts they often involve are difficult to grasp if the reader hasn't learned the reasoning skills and sophistication that come with being able to read above the Dick-and-Jane level.

Finally, and, yes, with a dose of spleen, nobody to my knowledge is doing anything, which was my apparently selfish motive in starting the thread in the first place..  If, as with Macbeth's idiot, this is to be nothing more than "...sound and fury,Signifying nothing " like a bunch of Sunday morning talking heads, so be it.  I have nothing more to contribute, so I'm outta here.

Have a nice time among yourselves;  I'm outta here.

[KindleChickie]

Sorry if you took my post as negative.  But it was more of a reality based thinking process for me.  As I said earlier, I grew up poor.  My earliest memory is lying in bed with my sister still hungry.  The idea that giving poor kids the opportunity to read on a Kindle is nice, but to me I just dont see it flying.  People tend to see things from their own perspective rather than one of others.  I personally see it as an issues to make middle/upper class people feel better about themselves rather than actually helping poor kids.  But then again, that is my perspective.

[MarthaT]

It sounds like a good idea to me

[pfaoro]

I guess I couldn't stay away after all.

I, too, grew up poor on a hardscrabble dairy farm that never turned a profit, attending a school that was abysmally bad.  BUT I LEARNED HOW TO READ!  That is the ONLY reason I was able to get scholarships, go to college, travel the world, and get not only into the middle class but the so-called Jet Set (which, looking back, wasn't all that wonderful.)

I don't give a tinker's d***m if "middle/upper class people feel better about themselves" or not.  Doing the right thing for wrong or selfish reasons is perfectly fine with me.  As Nelson Mandela, and others, have remarked, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"  In this case, my enemy, or for that matter the nation's enemy, is ignorance and I'll take whatever allies I can find.

Another cliche (that I use in my email signature):

Education means more than earning a living;
Education means having a life.

[Geoffrey]

I'm all in favor of getting anyone and everyone to read.  I've been doing it since I was 4 and have always encouraged children around me to follow suit.  However, I'm not sure if going the electronic route is the best way.  It does have the advantage of being cool - and that's a good way to attract initial attention. 

My concern, though, is around costs and around getting support from the community in general.  eBook readers are considered a luxury item still.  The the average person, it may well be serious overkill and I think to get the support necessary to make an impact on a city-wide, state-wide or national level will take the support of more people than those of us blessed with means to purchase our own ebook readers.