OUTLANDER: Week of 1/12; Reading Chapters 11-15, Discuss Chapters 6-10 here

[Suzanne]

Thank you very much! I was thinking Jelly and because her last name is Duncan
i was thinking Dunkin so i was thinking of her as Dunkin Jelly Doughnuts. 

I was pronouncing it Jelly too!

[PraiseGod13]

Gertie, thank so much for the pronunciation help.... I've read this 4 times now and am so glad I won't be thinking of her as "Jelly" any longer!  I've been toying with the idea of buying the DTB Outlandish Companion for a long time.  Does anyone know (maybe you have it) if it has the phonetic pronunciation of names?  I'm afraid if I buy it, then DG will come out with one that covers the whole series.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Gertie, thank so much for the pronunciation help.... I've read this 4 times now and am so glad I won't be thinking of her as "Jelly" any longer!  I've been toying with the idea of buying the DTB Outlandish Companion for a long time.  Does anyone know (maybe you have it) if it has the phonetic pronunciation of names?  I'm afraid if I buy it, then DG will come out with one that covers the whole series.

No, I never got the Outlandish Companion, but from what I've read on her website, it doesn't have the pronunciations.  I don't even remember where I got Laheer from, but I don't think it was from DG. 

I always said Geillie with a hard G, so I was sort of close.  I don't think I could have taken her quite so seriously at the beginning if I thought of her as Jelly, and definitely not if I thought of her as Jelly Doughnut.   

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Here's another pronunciation for you.  I don't remember if it comes up in this book or the next one but here it is.

Samhain (Halloween) is pronounced Sah’veen.

[Betsy the Quilter]

Here is a link to some pronunciations!

http://www.ansgeulaiche.co.uk/jamieandclaire.html#gaidhlig

Betsy

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Here is a link to some pronunciations!

http://www.ansgeulaiche.co.uk/jamieandclaire.html#gaidhlig

Betsy

Great site.  Wouldn't you just love to go on that tour?

I know that Mo Duinne is incorrect, but I don't care (DG made the correction in Voyager, I think).  Every time Jamie says "mo duinne" it just makes me sigh.  Of course, if I pronounced it correctly, I don't think I would sigh.  I think I would just say "God Bless You" in response. 
 

[Luvmy4brats]

I just got this off of Diana Gabaldon's website.

How is Laoghaire pronounced? Where did the name come from?

I got Laoghaire off a map. {grin} And no, I had no idea how it was pronounced, though I had a guess. The nice actress who does the audiotapes of the books pronounces it "Leery."

How is Geillis' name pronounced?

Well. {cough} I don't know. FWIW, the reader on the audiotape calls her GAY-liss or GAY-lee, and the reader (Geraldine James) is supposed to be quite good with Celtic stuff, so she may well be right.

I've always pronounced Laoghaire "Leer-ah" I think that's how Davina Porter pronounces it in the audiobooks (actually I think she pronounces it one way in the first book and then changes it somewhere after that)

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I just got this off of Diana Gabaldon's website.

I've always pronounced Laoghaire "Leer-ah" I think that's how Davina Porter pronounces it in the audiobooks (actually I think she pronounces it one way in the first book and then changes it somewhere after that)

Leary is actually the Irish/Celtic pronunciation.  There's a town in Ireland called Dun Laoghaire.  The website that Betsy found for us pronounces it both ways.  Laheer is stuck in my brain, so I'll stay with that.  Leerah is a nicer sound, though. 

[ScrappingForever]

Leary is actually the Irish/Celtic pronunciation.  There's a town in Ireland called Dun Laoghaire.  The website that Betsy found for us pronounces it both ways.  Laheer is stuck in my brain, so I'll stay with that.  Leerah is a nicer sound, though. 

Yes, I've always thought the pronunciation "leary" was quite apropos. Claire would do well to be "leary" or Laoghaire!

Great site.  Wouldn't you just love to go on that tour?

I think to celebrate the end of the Outlander Book Klub, we should all go on the tour! Wouldn't that be a hoot!

[Betsy the Quilter]

Let's start planning now!  Gertie can be the expert on our tour!


Betsy

[Lizzy]

Chapter Ten - The Oath Taking

1) Why do you think Jamie decided not to give Colum his oath? What do you think Claire thought when he didn't?

I dont know how clan things work but it wouldnt seem right to give allegiance to another clan when your in your own. I think that Claire liked the way Jaime handled it but im not sure if she even knows why.

2) Why do you think Dougal kissed Claire?

I think he has had a thing for Claire all along and when he found himself alone with her and he was a little drunk he just couldnt help himself.

3) When you read that Claire thought she could get back "home" from Ft. William, were you hoping she would succeed or fail? (your first impression, please!!)

I am hoping that she can get back. I was thinking that if she made it back then she would know it worked and it wouldnt take long before she just had to know what happens next and goes back again.

[Dori]

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations.  My computer locks up every time.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations.  My computer locks up every time.

It takes a while to load.  These are audio downloads.  Just wait a minute or two to see if it works for you.

[Betsy the Quilter]

Anyone else have trouble klicking the link to the pronounceiations.  My computer locks up every time.

Depending on your download speed, it might not work well for you.  Sorry it's locking up!

Betsy

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Let's start planning now!  Gertie can be the expert on our tour!


Betsy

You got it!! 

And our first stop is Inverness.

http://www.inverness-scotland.com/

Be sure to visit the kiltmakers.

http://www.scota.org/kilts.htm

and visit one of Inverness' fine pubs.

http://www.castletavern.net/

[Toby]

To add to what others have said, I think that besides getting used to the bathroom situation of that time, I would be more scared of being raped & even ganged raped. The way the author keeps putting it, it seems that whenever the men drink, they do not "choose" to control themselves around women.
I think that Jamie & Claire are attractive to each other & are steadily growing closer. However, Claire being married & from the future, she's still thinking that she wants to go back to Frank. As someone said, she's not attached to Jamie yet. The scene with Jamie kissing Lahere sp? I can't figure it out. First Jamie ignores her at the party, then, he wants Claire to see him in the act, so to speak. Is he trying to make Claire jealous or hopes to? Is Claire jealous? Is there denial going on?
I don't want Claire to go back. I want to see Jamie & Claire fall in love & read more of the story.
Don't know who hit Jamie with the ax. Dougal? Dougal's brother? Dougal's nephew?
Geille sp?  Not a time travelor from Claire's time or she would be just as shocked as Claire at the torture of that boy outside at the Pillary. She acted as if it were normal.
I don't think Frank is bad, because his ancestor was. You are responsible for your own actions.

[mumsicalwhimsy]

Enjoying the book and previous comments.   How did folks think, in that time period.   We are looking in from 2009.  Were they as trusting and honorable as the outlaw Jamie?   Were they of a clear, quick-thinking mind as Claire?   Geille is simply a "hoot" who would thrive in any time.  My frustration in anaylizing the characters is rooted in my not knowing the period of time and the mind-set of that time.
Nailing the young lads ear.....  barbaric, now.   What are we doing that will be viewed as barbaric in the future?   On the first reading of a book, I think I prefer to sit back and "enjoy the show".   I need to leave the "what ifs" to the next reading.

Jeff, you have it right to have folks read your book prior to the bookklub.  A good book simply has too many layers to get though on the first run.

Okay, it has been bloody cold here and our furnace quit last night.... 39 degrees indoors, when the repairman finally got it running again.    I think of the castle and lack of creature comforts and realize I can not have any idea of the characters and what they are thinking.   One day of cold inside temps and I am ready to howl and bay.     

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Enjoying the book and previous comments.   How did folks think, in that time period.   We are looking in from 2009.  Were they as trusting and honorable as the outlaw Jamie?   Were they of a clear, quick-thinking mind as Claire?   Geille is simply a "hoot" who would thrive in any time.  My frustration in anaylizing the characters is rooted in my not knowing the period of time and the mind-set of that time.
Nailing the young lads ear.....  barbaric, now.   What are we doing that will be viewed as barbaric in the future?   On the first reading of a book, I think I prefer to sit back and "enjoy the show".   I need to leave the "what ifs" to the next reading.

My feeling has always been that times change but people don't.  All of the characters you will find in this book, you will probably find in any time period.  There are the good, the bad, the leaders, the followers, those with "street" or "mountain" smarts, those with book learning.  What changes is the times and what is acceptable behavior and what is not.  Acceptable behavior is different from region to region, as well.  When my daughter was 14 and went to Europe with my parents, she was allowed to order wine in restaurants.  Not something that is allowed in the U.S.

My advice is to just accept what is in the book as right for the times, and read it for what it is. 

Jeff, you have it right to have folks read your book prior to the bookklub.  A good book simply has too many layers to get though on the first run.

You might want to go ahead and finish the book, and then come back and join the discussion later. 

Okay, it has been bloody cold here and our furnace quit last night.... 39 degrees indoors, when the repairman finally got it running again.    I think of the castle and lack of creature comforts and realize I can not have any idea of the characters and what they are thinking.   One day of cold inside temps and I am ready to howl and bay.     

Brrr, sorry about your furnace. 

It's all a matter of what you are used to.  I've seen films of Alaskan natives in the dead of winter outdoors wearing just windbreakers.  That would definitely not be me.  I was raised in the south and 60 degree temps here today have me in a sweat shirt and pants, two pairs of socks and boots.  To the MacKenzies, their castle was probably equipped with all the latest amenities and comforts. 

When we read about Mrs. Fitz using leeches or maggots, we probably all shudder a bit.  But these things are being used again now ... more antiseptically of course. 

If you want to know more, here's a link.

http://www.healthaffairs.uci.edu/som/pathology/sherman/home_pg.htm#What%20is%20Maggot%20Therapy

[mumsicalwhimsy]

Thanks, Gertie.  I am far more knowledgeable about maggot therapy than the average bear now.
Yes, I would agree.... people are people.  But, we are also molded by our experiences and environment.
I was humbled on a recent trip to Germany... and they are forward and current for the most part.  Yet, their daily lives are so different than ours.   Laws involving keeping the street clean along your home or business.... recycling to a far fetched ideal.    Far less driving and very little at all on Sundays... people walk.

I am comfortably in my 50s.   Yet, even some of the hardships of the previous generation are tough to fathom.   

As I read the book, I am reminded of how fortunate we are.  That seems primary with the story being secondary.   Don't get me wrong.  I enjoy the tale a great deal.  I suppose I have simply been supressing my personal rant about privilege and perspective. 

[Luvmy4brats]

Oh man..not the maggots, please no. I have to skim those parts. I have an unholy fear of those things. That word isn't even allowed to be said in my house. It's so bad, I don't eat white rice... Yes, I'm serious.

The leeches I can handle. Those don't bug me to read about.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Oh man..not the maggots, please no. I have to skim those parts. I have an unholy fear of those things. That word isn't even allowed to be said in my house. It's so bad, I don't eat white rice... Yes, I'm serious.

The leeches I can handle. Those don't bug me to read about.

Sorry about that. If I had known, I would have linked to the leeches instead.   

[Toby]

I would just like to thank everyone who answered my question about, "ye kin". I must have missed reading page 3 here yesterday or the day before. Chalked it up to being sick this week with a bug....er no, not maggots....ewwwww. Not sure if I want to click on that link. 
*Oh, I just read the good surprise, as opposed to the really bad surprise, last night in this weeks readings!!! I also tend to read around a Chapter a day, depending on my time. Of course, what slows me down is using the dictionary. It's like a new toy. At 1st, in this book, I wanted to look up sooooo much. Now, I'm trying to cut back. I can now say that as I get more & more into this book, that it gets better & better.
*Last night, I had a bit of a shock when I typed in the Outlander Series at Amazon, only 4 books showed up on the page. After freaking out. I found the other books. Whewww!!! I do not want to get the paperbacks, because they are big & heavy & because I got used to the larger font on the Kindle.
*In my previous book club, we had a virtual island, made up name & place, that we went to, to celebrate the end of the book. We had a virtual party with foods & invited characters from the book.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I would just like to thank everyone who answered my question about, "ye kin". I must have missed reading page 3 here yesterday or the day before. Chalked it up to being sick this week with a bug....er no, not maggots....ewwwww. Not sure if I want to click on that link. 

Everyone here is always glad to help, no matter what the question (even maggots).  It's one of the reasons I like it on Kindleboards so much. 

*Oh, I just read the good surprise, as opposed to the really bad surprise, last night in this weeks readings!!! I also tend to read around a Chapter a day, depending on my time. Of course, what slows me down is using the dictionary. It's like a new toy. At 1st, in this book, I wanted to look up sooooo much. Now, I'm trying to cut back. I can now say that as I get more & more into this book, that it gets better & better.

Oh, yeah.  We get to talk about all that tomorrow.      And still it gets better.

*Last night, I had a bit of a shock when I typed in the Outlander Series at Amazon, only 4 books showed up on the page. After freaking out. I found the other books. Whewww!!! I do not want to get the paperbacks, because they are big & heavy & because I got used to the larger font on the Kindle.

That must have been scary.  Yes, they are all there. 

*In my previous book club, we had a virtual island, made up name & place, that we went to, to celebrate the end of the book. We had a virtual party with foods & invited characters from the book. 

Want to be the party planner?  I'll bring the butterbeer. 

[Michael R. Hicks]

Oh man..not the maggots, please no. I have to skim those parts. I have an unholy fear of those things. That word isn't even allowed to be said in my house. It's so bad, I don't eat white rice... Yes, I'm serious.

Hmmm, I haven't gotten to the maggot part yet. But I recall the scene in Gladiator where they put the maggots in Maximus's shoulder. Admittedly gross, but a much better alternative than gangrene...

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Hmmm, I haven't gotten to the maggot part yet. But I recall the scene in Gladiator where they put the maggots in Maximus's shoulder. Admittedly gross, but a much better alternative than gangrene...

I think I may have gotten ahead of myself with that.  Sometimes it's hard to keep things straight. 

New questions tomorrow and another five chapters to read.