Are ebooks changing the status quo of word counts?

[M.R. Mathias]

To me 70K a novel makes. Below that it's a novella, novelette or short fiction (and then flash fiction). With novellas (I have 3 of them) when they breach 100 pages you can call them what you want. No one will castigate you for calling your work a short novel. However, clarity in product description will help your brand and readers will not think you are puffing your goods. Length does not equate to quality. Many a 500 word flash fiction piece beat many an Homeric size tome in the quality department. However, some readers buy their reading by the pound. Let's not keep our finger on the scale.

Ed Patterson

"The Old Man and the Sea"  barely a hundred pages in my paper copy, but a masterpiece that will stand all of time.

"Lonesome Dove" 1400+ in my paper copy the same as above.

Can anyone equate a Kindle position to word ratio?  Just an average.   

[Edward C. Patterson]

"The Old Man and the Sea"  barely a hundred pages in my paper copy, but a masterpiece that will stand all of time.

"Lonesome Dove" 1400+ in my paper copy the same as above.

Can anyone equate a Kindle position to word ratio?  Just an average.   

It's hard. I did 2 or so years ago, when it was a hot question. However, location changes with the font size setting and the margin settings (on the K1, it's different than on K2 and DX, and the DX being larger, it has a different location count). Therefore, for marketing purposes, if Amazon doesn't list your print page count, you might want to include it in the product description. For readers who track book length after they read the percent registers at the screen bottom, and in the indices, that little length bar appears for each books. When I scan that index, those books that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the width of the device with bar length are novel length. Big books go to 3/4rds or above.

Ed Patterson

[M.R. Mathias]

It's hard. I did 2 or so years ago, when it was a hot question. However, location changes with the font size setting and the margin settings (on the K1, it's different than on K2 and DX, and the DX being larger, it has a different location count). Therefore, for marketing purposes, if Amazon doesn't list your print page count, you might want to include it in the product description. For readers who track book length after they read the percent registers at the screen bottom, and in the indices, that little length bar appears for each books. When I scan that index, those books that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the width of the device with bar length are novel length. Big books go to 3/4rds or above.

Ed Patterson

In the King's English please! 

[jbh13md]

Isn't it (AT LEAST SOMETIMES) about intent? I mean, if you set out to write something short and it's great... great. If you set out to write something long and it's great... great. I know business is business and indie writing is a business business, but isn't it also...gasp...a medium for art? Reading this thread, I was struck by the fact that as soon as I started self publishing word count became kind of meaningless to me. I guess I've always had more trouble with being brief than with being wordy, so it might just be me that found it a relief that I could actually offer for sale a longer book that most agents wouldn't even look at, but I dunno. Short or long... though it's much more fickle to judge, quality is what really matters, right? Or does that go without saying?

[Betsy the Quilter]

It's hard. I did 2 or so years ago, when it was a hot question. However, location changes with the font size setting and the margin settings (on the K1, it's different than on K2 and DX, and the DX being larger, it has a different location count). Therefore, for marketing purposes, if Amazon doesn't list your print page count, you might want to include it in the product description. For readers who track book length after they read the percent registers at the screen bottom, and in the indices, that little length bar appears for each books. When I scan that index, those books that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the width of the device with bar length are novel length. Big books go to 3/4rds or above.

Ed Patterson

One correction, Ed....location does NOT change with font size, word count does.  That's why Amazon and the Kindle use locations.  No matter what size font, location 400, for example, will take you to the exact same word in the book.

Carry on.   I like LONG books, by the way.



Betsy

[daringnovelist]

I think you may be missing my point.   I was just pointing out the economies of scale.  The lower the cost, the more of something you have to sell to recoop your investment or replace the financial reward of another method (and you'll note that I did mention in my post that I wasn't even getting into actual costs, because those vary for people).  You have to weigh the options and decide what is best.

I was actually agreeing in a way, that it may be unrealistic to price a short story at that price, particularly when there are other options to profit off of that story that don't require spamming forums begging people to buy lol

Got it.  It sounded like you were justifying pricing at 1.99 - which is mathematically realistic, but not in terms of market.

The thing I like about ebooks is that you can scale it much easier.  A lot of enthusiastic beginners go into various crafts and artisan businesses, and they seriously under-price their products, which in the end will put both them and their competition out of business.  With ebooks (unlike, say, a hand-woven basket or a loaf of bread) your expenses are fixed no matter how many you sell (other than marketing).  So under-pricing is not such a problem.  If you need to sell 100 to make your goal, then you can just wait to sell it.

The other thing is that with short stories, you don't have to choose one or the other.  My short story collection is doing quite well, and I think part of the reason is BECAUSE the stories are all previously published.  I really think short story writers should stick with traditional publishing so they can double dip. (Plus each outside publication is an advertisement for your kindle pubs.)

Camille

[D. Nathan Hilliard]

We can always say we knew each other before we were famous. 

[jbh13md]

We can always say we knew each other before we were famous. 

By promoting each other, we can create a movement and pretend it was culture that did it!

[Edward C. Patterson]

Thanks, o quiltmistress.

Btw, I have another long one coming out.

[M.R. Mathias]

Isn't it (AT LEAST SOMETIMES) about intent? I mean, if you set out to write something short and it's great... great. If you set out to write something long and it's great... great. I know business is business and indie writing is a business business, but isn't it also...gasp...a medium for art? Reading this thread, I was struck by the fact that as soon as I started self publishing word count became kind of meaningless to me. I guess I've always had more trouble with being brief than with being wordy, so it might just be me that found it a relief that I could actually offer for sale a longer book that most agents wouldn't even look at, but I dunno. Short or long... though it's much more fickle to judge, quality is what really matters, right? Or does that go without saying?

The huge size of my work didn't even register as part of the equation when I was writing it.  I didn't set out to do anything but attempt to write a fantasy novel to escape my environment.  I was reading Goodkind, Tolkien, Hobbs, GRR Martin, at the time and they were all huge.  I figured that was the norm.  But after I started trying to get published I learned that publishers, due to high printing costs, wont take a chance on a huge book from a "no name."  Now, the size of my novel is what sets me apart from the 'Indie Kindle Norm.'  This is no offense to anybody, but when your marketing you are suppossed to point out what makes you different than the rest. Thats all I'm doing when it sounds like I am boasting.   I felt bad when I started offering the huge 100,000 word preview because thats larger than a lot of books out there, but after carefull consideration I went with my long time Tom Cruise motto "Sometimes you just got to say WTF"....    You guys got great covers and editing skills.  I got a book thats huge.  It is buisness, and I hate that part of this.  BTW if I tried to get wordy and over describe in my book it would have been 1200 pages...lol 

[NoahMullette-Gillman]

By promoting each other, we can create a movement and pretend it was culture that did it!

That' so dastardly it just might work!

[Jarrett Rush]

As a non-Kindler, at least for now, can someone explain what location its importance. Thanks.

[jbh13md]

The huge size of my work didn't even register as part of the equation when I was writing it.  I didn't set out to do anything but attempt to write a fantasy novel to escape my environment.  I was reading Goodkind, Tolkien, Hobbs, GRR Martin, at the time and they were all huge.  I figured that was the norm.  But after I started trying to get published I learned that publishers, due to high printing costs, wont take a chance on a huge book from a "no name."  Now, the size of my novel is what sets me apart from the 'Indie Kindle Norm.'  This is no offense to anybody, but when your marketing you are suppossed to point out what makes you different than the rest. Thats all I'm doing when it sounds like I am boasting.   I felt bad when I started offering the huge 100,000 word preview because thats larger than a lot of books out there, but after carefull consideration I went with my long time Tom Cruise motto "Sometimes you just got to say WTF"....    You guys got great covers and editing skills.  I got a book thats huge.  It is buisness, and I hate that part of this.  BTW if I tried to get wordy and over describe in my book it would have been 1200 pages...lol 

I don't think I over describe. I just like to write a lot of description. That's my style, man. Don't dog it. But that probably wasn't meant for me personally anyway, right?   I agree with what you're saying here. I guess my point (or a t least part of it) was that length is one of the restrictions e-publishing should alleviate and that that's interesting from an artistic standpoint because it becomes more a matter of choice than a matter of "this is too big or too small to publish." Also, M.R., you were motivated to write as an escape, but your intent, based on what you've just written, was to write a book like those fantasy authors that inspired you (they wrote long books... you wrote a long book...) and that's cool. You were able to do it. Huzzah for indie publishing.  

[M.R. Mathias]

That' so dastardly it just might work!

Evil geniuses plotting for a better tomorrow.


@jbh13md  Huzzah!

[jbh13md]

Evil geniuses plotting for a better tomorrow.


@jbh13md  Huzzah!

Seriously, guys. I know if I "hit it big" I'm totally going to be like, "I bet you slackers haven't even heard of The Sword and The Dragon or The White Hairs! Psssht! Get out of my face, posers!" It's gonna be sweet.   

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

As a non-Kindler, at least for now, can someone explain what location its importance. Thanks.

At the bottom of the kindle screen, you see locations numbers. e.g. the first page might show 1-9, but that depends on the font size you are reading. There are no page numbers. On the K2, it will also show a % of what you've read. Since I have a K1, I "go to location" which tells me how many locations there are. I find the average novel has 3500-4000 locations.

I don't know if that explains it. You sort of have to see it.

[Jarrett Rush]

At the bottom of the kindle screen, you see locations numbers. e.g. the first page might show 1-9, but that depends on the font size you are reading. There are no page numbers. On the K2, it will also show a % of what you've read. Since I have a K1, I "go to location" which tells me how many locations there are. I find the average novel has 3500-4000 locations.

I don't know if that explains it. You sort of have to see it.

Thanks so much. You did a good job. I understand it now.