OUTLANDER: Week of 2/16, Discussing Chps. 34-41 ... The End

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Do harpys have fathers?

Yes, but he looks very old and he drinks heavily.

[BambiB]

Yes, but he looks very old and he drinks heavily.

As well he should, with a harpy as offspring!

[Ann in Arlington]

O.K.  I finally finished this book.  Please don't hurt me, but I didn't think it was the best thing I'd ever read.  Though it WAS enjoyable.

I liked that the plot was fairly complex -- I get very frustrated when I can tell how a book is to end when I've barely begun it.  I literally never had any idea where this was going. . . .only problem with that is if I read too fast I'd miss something and wake up and go, 'wait, where am I'.  (Hmm maybe I do have an idea how Claire felt.)

Speaking of which, I'm conflicted about the whole time travel element.  But "there are more things in heaven and earth. . . ."  And, as Coleridge said, to appreciate a good story you must be willing to suspend disbelief.  'Course, that was easy for him as he was on drugs a lot.    So, o.k., she jumped back in time.  It does make for interesting things to consider in terms of what she knows vs. what they know, etc.  She's way worried about the major battle, though, but not really at all about the little things.  Has she never heard of the Butterfly effect?    I was glad Anselm pointed out to her that every thing she'd done since she arrived potentially had an effect on the future.

Speaking of Anselm, Claire adjusted very quickly. . .perfectly reasonable that she kept quiet about it to others for so long.  But I have to say I found it even less believable that Jaime and Brother Anselm just accepted Claire's story as true so quickly.  Talk about Enlightened.  I'm not sure someone NOW would accept her story at face value.

I did find it clever of her to use the seal of the Confessional when she told Anselm.  I mean, she knew Jaime would protect her no matter what even if he thought she was nuts; she couldn't be sure how Anselm would react but by telling him as a 'confession' she pretty much swore him to silence.  So she totally understood the risk to her if it got out.

I know nothing of nursing, or PTSD, which is what it appears Jaime was suffering from along with a heavy dose of guilt and shame, but her method for bringing him back to himself was certainly novel.  Not to say unorthodox.    Just as well it was 400 years ago because I'm pretty sure no physician in the 40's would have allowed it. 

So it kind of sounds like I didn't like it.  I did. . . just not sure how much.  Also, I read it in fits and starts and I think I would have enjoyed it more if I'd been able to read in longer stretches.  Anyway, I have the sample for the next one. . . .if it sucks me in I may continue with the series, but I don't expect to get to it before May or so. . . .I have Whiskey Rebels and In Her Name to read too. . .and I SO want to read Distant Cousin with Brassman. . . .And if I start it when I'll have time to read it more or less straight through I think I'll get more out of it. 

I do want to say a big THANK YOU to Gertie for leading the Klub. . . I'll probably poke my nose in these threads now and then, but I don't want any spoilers in case I do continue with the series so I won't be doing more than skimming. . . .Before I start Dragonfly, I'll go back through the Klub threads in case I missed anything Significant. 

Ann

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

O.K.  I finally finished this book.  Please don't hurt me, but I didn't think it was the best thing I'd ever read.  Though it WAS enjoyable.

Robin's Rule only cover's klub leaders ... kidding.  Nobody gets beaten with a stick.  I am glad that you enjoyed it.  Loving the book isn't required.   

I also appreciate that you posted your honest opinion. 

Speaking of which, I'm conflicted about the whole time travel element.  But "there are more things in heaven and earth. . . ."  And, as Coleridge said, to appreciate a good story you must be willing to suspend disbelief.  'Course, that was easy for him as he was on drugs a lot.    So, o.k., she jumped back in time.  It does make for interesting things to consider in terms of what she knows vs. what they know, etc.  She's way worried about the major battle, though, but not really at all about the little things.  Has she never heard of the Butterfly effect?    I was glad Anselm pointed out to her that every thing she'd done since she arrived potentially had an effect on the future.

Originally, the book was completely set in 18th century Scotland.  DG just couldn't stop Claire from talking like a 20th century woman, so she added the time travel.   

Father Anselm also pointed out to Claire that everything we all do affects the future.  It's just that Claire has some foreknowledge of major events.  If Claire went back to the future, would she meet descendants of people whose lives she saved?  Would she find that, e.g., Mrs. Graham no longer existed because she killed those two soldiers in Wentworth?  It's an interesting subject with no way of resolving it.  I guess time travel authors have to put their own spin on it. 

So it kind of sounds like I didn't like it.  I did. . . just not sure how much.  Also, I read it in fits and starts and I think I would have enjoyed it more if I'd been able to read in longer stretches.  Anyway, I have the sample for the next one. . . .if it sucks me in I may continue with the series, but I don't expect to get to it before May or so. . . .I have Whiskey Rebels and In Her Name to read too. . .and I SO want to read Distant Cousin with Brassman. . . .And if I start it when I'll have time to read it more or less straight through I think I'll get more out of it. 

If you decide to read Dragonfly in Amber, no obligation to join in the discussion. 

I finished The Whiskey Rebels two weeks ago.  Very good read with a very good (and unexpected) ending. 

In Her Name ... having a hard time holding back on this one.  Okay, I admit I'm not really holding back all that much. 

I hope to join Distant Cousin, but may have to jump in late. 

I really enjoyed leading the discussion.  It was definitely my pleasure.

[tlshaw *Padded Cell 511*]

Ann;
Glad you were able to finish the book. Hey, not everyone likes everything, so you will not be thought less of. Just glad you stuck with it.

[ConnieK]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book.  I realize this is a board about Kindles and hope you don't mind my commenting on a different version, but I listened to it via audiobook, thanks to Gertie's (?) $4.95 audiobook recommendation on this board.  The narrator's voice was absolutely mesmerizing and added so much to my enjoyment of the book.  She did an amazing job switching from the smooth and proper tone of Claire, to the strong Scottish accent of Jamie, and scarily captured the dastardly inflections of Jack Randall.   

The only problem I had was that I realized I must have zoned out at times, because when I reviewed some the questions on this board, I did not even notice that certain events had happened.  Unfortunately, going back to find something on audio is much more difficult than searching on Kindle or flipping through pages.  In most cases, my questions were satisfactorily answered by participants' responses to the questions, but I do have 2 questions remaining at the end of the book and I hope someone does not mind responding -

1.  It seems that Jamie's mother, Ellen, was given jewelry from at least 2 men other than Jamie's father.  Is this meant to imply (or maybe it was stated) that she had affairs with these men and that Jamie might have a different father than the one that raised him?  (I hope not) I wasn't sure what to make of that and wonder if it will be covered in more depth in subsequent books.

2. I do not remember any mention of Claire being pregnant at the end of the book, yet this is discussed here and at the beginning of DiA.  How was this mentioned in Outlander?

I can't leave "the voice" so am listening to DiA now - the first audiobook I've tried on the Kindle.  Looking forward to seeing the questions and all of your comments on this book as well.

[tlshaw *Padded Cell 511*]

Glad you are joining us. I will try to answer your questions.

Both of the men who gave Ellen gifts gave them to her before she married Brian Fraser. Also, Jamie was the youngest child, so there would be little chance of any other father.

Also, when Jamie and Claire are leaving the lake under the Abbey, they stop on the way up the stairs and she tells him she has a gift for him - taking her down to the lake was a gift from Jamie. It is on the last page of the book.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I thoroughly enjoyed this book.  I realize this is a board about Kindles and hope you don't mind my commenting on a different version, but I listened to it via audiobook, thanks to Gertie's (?) $4.95 audiobook recommendation on this board.  The narrator's voice was absolutely mesmerizing and added so much to my enjoyment of the book.  She did an amazing job switching from the smooth and proper tone of Claire, to the strong Scottish accent of Jamie, and scarily captured the dastardly inflections of Jack Randall.   

Any version of Outlander has to be good.  I'm glad to hear that about the audio, but I'm not sure if I could sleep at night after hearing Black Jack threaten Claire and what he did to Jamie.  (shudder)

I'll be posting DiA questions tomorrow morning.  We read the first seven chapters this week.

Just to add to what tlshaw said in answer to your questions.

Both of the men who gave Ellen gifts gave them to her before she married Brian Fraser. Also, Jamie was the youngest child, so there would be little chance of any other father.

Ellen certainly had admirers, but if she had been having multiple affairs, either Dougal or Column would have been sure to find out.  I doubt if either MacRannoch or Murtagh would have lived to tell the tale. It's also mentioned that Jamie has the Fraser cat eyes. 

Also, when Jamie and Claire are leaving the lake under the Abbey, they stop on the way up the stairs and she tells him she has a gift for him - taking her down to the lake was a gift from Jamie. It is on the last page of the book.

The clue is when he spreads his hand across her belly.  He knows.  (sigh)

[ConnieK]

Thank you both - I appreciate the clarifications (today and throughout the book klub discussion).

[Michael R. Hicks]

Chapter 34 - Dougal's Story

1. Do you think Claire and Murtagh's feelings about each other changed during their search for Jamie?

Clearly. I think they gained a lot of respect for one another, and Claire learned a lot about Murtagh that helped her better understand him.

2. What did you think of Dougal's story and proposal?

Mainly confirmed my original thoughts that I really didn't like Dougal!

3. Why do you think Rupert and the others joined Claire and Murtagh in the rescue attempt?

They liked and respected Jamie, and it was also a chance to stick it to the Redcoats...

PART SEVEN - "SANCTUARY"

Chapter 35 - Wentworth Prison

4. How did you feel when you realized Jack Randall was at the prison?

I would've been surprised had he *not* turned up! But I thought, "Uh-ohhhh..."

5. What did you think when Randall let Claire go?

At least he had some sort of honor, I suppose. However, as I always tell Jan when we watch monster movies, NEVER assume the monster is out of action unless you cut off its head! Claire shouldn't have let herself be surprised by Randall so he could take her hostage. Hmph.

Chapter 36 - MacRannoch

6. What did you think of the rescue plan? Did you think it would work?

The only thing that bothered me was that it was hard for me to imagine getting a bunch of cattle up to the prison without anybody noticing, and then getting them all through a door that, in my mind, was more or less "normal sized." Moo!

7. Did you think Jamie would recover from his experiences?

Yes, but as I expected it was a hard road. Gabaldon did a great job describing it.

Chapter 37 - Escape

8. Do you think it was easy for Claire to kill the soldier?

Clearly not - I don't think killing anyone would ever be easy except for the most hardened soul.

Chapter 38 - The Abbey

9. How did Claire's feelings about the Church change at the Abbey?

She (re)discovered her faith.

Chapter 39 - To Ransom a Man's Soul

10. How did you feel when Jamie told Claire about his rape and told her to go back to Frank?

Typical Jamie! But at least he got it out in the open where they could try and deal with it, where Claire knew enough to really understand what had happened not only to Jamie's body, but his mind and spirit.

11. What did you think of the "exorcism"?

I'm not really quite sure what to think of that! It was interesting...but rather strange!

12.  What did you think of Jack trying to make Jamie say he loved him and calling him Alex? 

Well, the first word I uttered was "incestuous," but I won't repeat the other things I said! 

Chapter 40 - Absolution

13. Do you think Father Anselm's absolution helped Claire? Did you agree with his conclusions about her time travel?

Yes and yes...I think! I think he certainly helped Claire. As for the conclusions about her time travel, I guess that depends on your point of view: if you believe that the past is essentially immutable, than anything that Claire did would already be a preexisting part of history. From the sound of what I've heard of the other books from Jan, that seems to have been the approach Diana G. took.

Chapter 41 - From the Womb of the Earth

14. What did you think of the book's ending

Well, to be honest, I hate it when books end like that. :-(

But at least I finally managed to finish it!

I enjoyed it quite a bit, and at some point I'll probably pick up the next one to read in my copious free time! Dang, I *really* need to ditch this 9 to 5 job thing...

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Yay, Mike!!  I'm glad you finished the book and liked it. 

If you hated how it ended, you're going to hate how DiA starts even more.  You'll think you missed a book in between.  Don't worry, Jan will help you through it.   

[ConnieK]

OMG - the name of the last chapter was "womb of the earth"?  I'm sure if I'd heard that part of the audiobook, I would have understood she was pregnant at the end.  "slapping forehead"

[Michael R. Hicks]

OMG - the name of the last chapter was "womb of the earth"?  I'm sure if I'd heard that part of the audiobook, I would have understood she was pregnant at the end.  "slapping forehead"

Ahhhhhh! I thought I was missing something! That fills in the blank spot!

[Michael R. Hicks]

Yay, Mike!!  I'm glad you finished the book and liked it. 

If you hated how it ended, you're going to hate how DiA starts even more.  You'll think you missed a book in between.  Don't worry, Jan will help you through it.   

Oh, we already had a spoiler discussion...