Adult

[author]

...obliged to advertise work as being suitable for adults only?

[swolf]

It's always good to be as clear and honest about it as you can.  For two reasons:  First, it's a selling point, and many people are looking for it.  Secondly, there are just as many people looking to avoid it, and making readers angry with you is never a good thing.

[G.L. Douglas]

It's always good to be as clear and honest about it as you can.  For two reasons:  First, it's a selling point, and many people are looking for it.  Secondly, there are just as many people looking to avoid it, and making readers angry with you is never a good thing.

David said it perfectly^  Market your product with integrity and you'll never regret it.

[RobertMarda]

It would be very helpful for me if a book would indicate if any of that content was in the book.

Even better if the book indicated which of those was in it.  I can tolerate some level of violence but prefer to do without the rest of what would make a book for adults only.

[Christine Merrill]

But once you start rating things, where should it end?  And who's version of adult content should you go by?  Some people don't mind sexual content.  but if you use the F word, even as a curse, they are shocked.  and some don't mind the swearing, as long as you don't take the Lord's name in vain.

I won't say that the majority of books have something objectionable in them.  But the majority of the books I read do.  I read a lot of romance, of course.  And Janet Evonovich and Neil Gaiman, who have some passages I would consider adult.

And in the world of traditional publishing, I am the author of "Seducing a Stranger."  Once you have that on your resume, you kind of assume that the audience is going to put two and two together on the rest of your bibliography.

But my other books do not have warnings on them anywhere.  Why should my self published stuff?

[telracs]

It would be very helpful for me if a book would indicate if any of that content was in the book.

Even better if the book indicated which of those was in it.  I can tolerate some level of violence but prefer to do without the rest of what would make a book for adults only.

Whereas I don't mind the sex, but would like to avoid violence.

[Victorine]

Let people know what they're getting, IMHO.  Just one line is all you'd need.  "Contains sex/violence, may not be suitable for a younger audience."

Let people choose what goes into their own brains.  And, if I have a kid reading a lot of books, I can't read each and every one to see if what they are reading is appropriate.  But one sentence telling me what is in the book would be helpful.

Don't assume it will mean more people won't read your book.  Just look at all the fuss that was made about Fifth Avenue.  Still a best seller, but much of the shouting would have been avoided with one sentence in the description. 

Vicki

[Ali Cooper]

Yes. I intend to indicate that my next book contains swearing.

As more kids get kindles this is going to get increasingly important.

[JJWestendarp]

I think if you're talking about full-blown erotica, or ridiculously gratuitous violence, then yeah, warnings should be considered. However, it's a fine line to tread. My book has plenty of violence and a fair amount of swearing, but it's not over the top and I would compare it to the level which 80s action films tended to show. A simple disclaimer at the beginning of the novel should be enough warning so long as it shows up in the free samples. After that, the onus is on the reader if they continue.

[telracs]

I think if you're talking about full-blown erotica, or ridiculously gratuitous violence, then yeah, warnings should be considered. However, it's a fine line to tread. My book has plenty of violence and a fair amount of swearing, but it's not over the top and I would compare it to the level which 80s action films tended to show. A simple disclaimer at the beginning of the novel should be enough warning so long as it shows up in the free samples. After that, the onus is on the reader if they continue.

I don't think that a warning in the front of the book is enough, since a number of people (myself included) do not sample.  So a comment on your book page is a better idea. 

[Victorine]

I don't think that a warning in the front of the book is enough, since a number of people (myself included) do not sample.  So a comment on your book page is a better idea. 

I agree.  It's not like you have to list everything that goes on in the book.  Just a simple "Some violence/swear words."  It's not a big deal. 

Vicki

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

Visual media is consumed and processed by the brain differently than written media.  People will process "visual" cues in written media based on their own background.  A person who has never actually seen a pornographic film will read a sex scene in a book very differently than a person who has an internal library of visual references.  The same with violence.  It is very different to read "The severed head rolled down the stairs, leaving a trail of blood behind it" than it is to SEE a head rolling down a flight of steps.  (um, not that I know that from personal experience.  Just giving an example.)    But this is one of the reasons visual media tends to need labels more than books.  

With books, generally your description and packaging should convey what to expect.  Readers see a naked male torso and they immediately think "romance."  Through in a dark background and some moonlight and its "paranormal romance."  Nobody should be surprised if if they buy the book and find sex scenes in it.  The packaging conveyed what to expect.  

The reason why indies sometimes get in trouble is that we don't often have the marketing savvy of traditional publishers.  The cover art might be something we like personally, but doesn't really convey the mood of the book (been a few authors in this forum who got in trouble with this one!).  Our blurbs or book descriptions may not adequately reflect the genre (often because we are trying to appease everyone instead of focusing on a specific target demographic).  

But so long as you are accurately reflecting your book in the packaging, you shouldn't have a problem.  It's one of the reasons it is important to be aware of the norms in your genre so that you can use those cues to target your readership.

[swolf]

Readers see a naked male torso and they immediately think "romance."

Or male erotica. 

In my story 'Amulet', it's actually a guy who wears the amulet (for the most part).  But if I put a bare-chested male on the cover wearing the amulet, it would be sending the wrong message.

[Christine Merrill]

Or male erotica. 

No, no, no.  Male erotica is two torsos.  Or more than two arms.  I swear, sometimes it is like looking at flesh pretzels, but you can get an idea of the exact target, based on the number of limbs.

I went to have a look at Fifth Avenue, and was surprised that there would be a brouhaha of any sort.  To me, the cover says "thriller" of the sort that I don't read.  No humor in it.  Probably hardboiled, because of the blood red and the NYC skyline.  And those that I have read, that looked like that, had graphic sex, graphic violence, graphic language and sometimes a few kinks.  Skimming the blurb, there is more mention of sex (which would not bother me) but a bunch of other things which I would find icky.

Does not look like kind of read.

But it is obviously somebody else's, based on the sales numbers.  To me, any kind of an author applied warning label on a book like that would show a lack of confidence in the ability to market like a mainstream book.

But I may be wrong.  Before writing, I was a librarian.  While we might rate things for each other, and shelve things with age in mind, but sticking content labels on books would be like censoring them.  Librarians try to be very nonjudgemental about the exact content.  And a little frustrated at the public's idea that a large collection of books should be a haven of G rated purity. 

If it's not the sex, or violence, or swearing, it's the politics or the ideas.  Someone always wants a label.  Once you give in on one thing, every book needs a label to keep from offending someone.

Caveat lector.  Or whatever "reader beware" would be in proper Latin. 

 

   

[Paul Clayton]

I have one instance of the F-word smack dab in the middle of my historical, White Seed.  I think it was used appropriately, for the sake of art.  In Carl Melcher, I originally wrote it as a YA, on the advice of an agent (who later dropped the project), using no profanity, not even the s-word.  On my last edit, I put just the s-word back in there, for the sake of realism.  But the F-bombs, well, there was so much other [crap] blowing up that they weren't needed.

As far as highlighting this, I feel that it's not an issue in these two books.  But I did warn a Christian reading group that although most of the characters in White Seed were Christian, their faith was not the paramount fulcrum of the plot, rather more part of the matrix of their world, and my world building.

[R. M. Reed]

Smashwords asks for you to check whether your book contains adult content. I did check it on my horror collection, though I'm afraid that lumps me in with the out and out porn titles on that site. Amazon doesn't ask, but I have wondered if I should say something on the page, the last story is mild by erotica standards but could shock someone who isn't expecting it.

[Victorine]

No, no, no.  Male erotica is two torsos.  Or more than two arms.  I swear, sometimes it is like looking at flesh pretzels, but you can get an idea of the exact target, based on the number of limbs.

I went to have a look at Fifth Avenue, and was surprised that there would be a brouhaha of any sort.  To me, the cover says "thriller" of the sort that I don't read.  No humor in it.  Probably hardboiled, because of the blood red and the NYC skyline.  And those that I have read, that looked like that, had graphic sex, graphic violence, graphic language and sometimes a few kinks.  Skimming the blurb, there is more mention of sex (which would not bother me) but a bunch of other things which I would find icky.

Does not look like kind of read.

But it is obviously somebody else's, based on the sales numbers.  To me, any kind of an author applied warning label on a book like that would show a lack of confidence in the ability to market like a mainstream book.

But I may be wrong.  Before writing, I was a librarian.  While we might rate things for each other, and shelve things with age in mind, but sticking content labels on books would be like censoring them.  Librarians try to be very nonjudgemental about the exact content.  And a little frustrated at the public's idea that a large collection of books should be a haven of G rated purity.  

If it's not the sex, or violence, or swearing, it's the politics or the ideas.  Someone always wants a label.  Once you give in on one thing, every book needs a label to keep from offending someone.

Caveat lector.  Or whatever "reader beware" would be in proper Latin.  
  

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all.  How is putting "Contains sex and mild violence" in the description of your book censoring??

And who labels movies for political ideas?  Come on, we all know the things that are sensitive in nature, and thus are labeled on other types of media.  Sex, violence, strong language, and maybe adult themes if there's no sex but situations that are more adult.  So you tell readers what they're getting.  Big deal.  How in the world is that censoring?

I also beg to differ with Julie.  (Wow, that never happens!)  I do "see" things as I read.  That's why I can't read scary books late at night without keeping all of the lights on.  Books can most definitely effect us, even if we've never "seen" the things described in the book.  (Unless it's poorly written.  Ha!)

Vicki

[SuzanneTyrpak]

I don't think there should be a mandatory rating system for books. But I do believe it's a good idea to indicate the nature of the content--if the cover, title, or a blurb don't do the job, I think a line in the description of the is a good idea, especially for ebooks, since a reader can't open the cover and scan the content.

[swolf]

But I may be wrong.  Before writing, I was a librarian.  While we might rate things for each other, and shelve things with age in mind, but sticking content labels on books would be like censoring them.  Librarians try to be very nonjudgemental about the exact content.  And a little frustrated at the public's idea that a large collection of books should be a haven of G rated purity. 

But librarians do label books.  They have entire sections of labels.  History over there, Mysteries back here, Horror in that section, etc.

And the reason those labels exist is because they help people find what they're looking for - and avoid what they're not.   Labels for other types of content serve the exact same purpose.

[Victorine]

But librarians do label books.  They have entire sections of labels.  History over there, Mysteries back here, Horror in that section, etc.

And the reason those labels exist is because they help people find what they're looking for - and avoid what they're not.   Labels for other types of content serve the exact same purpose.

I totally agree.  And it's not about changing laws to force people to put warnings on books.  It's about helping the reader find what they're looking for.

Well said.

Vicki

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

I also beg to differ with Julie.  

Heretic! lol

My only point was there are actual differences in how the brain processes visual versus written media, in addresses the issue of why movies have ratings and books don't.

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

Of course, the flip side of the coin is that there is a portion of the young adult population that will expressly seek out anything with a "warning label." And if placing a warning on your book is there solely to prevent young people from reading it, it can have the opposite effect unless there is also a gatekeeper enforcing the label.

[Victorine]

Heretic! lol

Heehee!  *Hugs Julie*

Vicki

[Victorine]

Of course, the flip side of the coin is that there is a portion of the young adult population that will expressly seek out anything with a "warning label." And if placing a warning on your book is there solely to prevent young people from reading it, it can have the opposite effect unless there is also a gatekeeper enforcing the label.

Any young kids seeking out erotica or porn can easily find it these days, I don't think they need to go searching the descriptions of books on Amazon. 

Vicki

[swolf]

People keep telling me there's porn on the internet, but I just can't find it.