"Challenging"

[author]

Books that take us out of our comfort zone, that challenge, confront or confound...

[Thalia the Muse]

Oh, when I think of challenging fiction, I think of a book that requires some effort and thought to enjoy -- intellectually challenging. It sounds like you're thinking more of controversial or edgy literature?

In that vein:

J.G. Ballard (The Atrocity Exhibition is a good starting place for his more in-the-face work)
Burroughs, of course
Chuck Palahniuk
Kathy Acker (I find her unreadable ...)
John Shirley
William T. Vollmann -- if you avoid his books that were inspired by his obsession with prostitutes. Rainbow Stories is beautiful, but contains some incredibly disturbing stuff.
Poppy Z. Brite
Kathe Koja

[Margaret]

I found Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children to be an excellent, but very challenging book.  It introduced me to a history and a culture that I knew next to nothing about.  Not an easy read, but I recommend it highly.

[Steve Silkin]

i highly recommend 'zimzum' and 'extravaganza' by gordon lish and 'eustace chisholm and the works' by james purdy

[Ryl]

Silence by Shusaku Endo is the most challenging book I've read in recent years. It forced me to think about several issues in a very uncomfortable way.

[Basilius]

I found Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children to be an excellent, but very challenging book.  It introduced me to a history and a culture that I knew next to nothing about.  Not an easy read, but I recommend it highly.

Given I'm the one that introduced you to Midnight's Children, it warms the cockles of my heart to see this

[Geemont]

William T. Vollmann -- if you avoid his books that were inspired by his obsession with prostitutes. Rainbow Stories is beautiful, but contains some incredibly disturbing stuff.

I'd rank him as perhaps the most fascinating American author.  If you can take stories about prostitutes, The Royal Family is a huge sprawling novel of obsession and descent into madness, if not, Europe Central tells the stories of WWII from the perspective of the Germans and Russians--with lots of footnotes--an oddity for fiction.  Unfortunately, the agency model has set prices for both titles at $16.99. 

Readers may want to seek of the DTB versions.  Also, in DTB only, you should look for The Ice-Shirt and Fathers and Crows.

These books are very "challenging" and "disturbing" too.  Depending on your personal moral views, you may want to add "degenerate" as well.  Vollmann is not for everyone.


Expensive Kindle:


DTB Only:

[Paegan]

Oh, when I think of challenging fiction, I think of a book that requires some effort and thought to enjoy -- intellectually challenging. It sounds like you're thinking more of controversial or edgy literature?

In that vein:

J.G. Ballard (The Atrocity Exhibition is a good starting place for his more in-the-face work)
Burroughs, of course
Chuck Palahniuk
Kathy Acker (I find her unreadable ...)
John Shirley
William T. Vollmann -- if you avoid his books that were inspired by his obsession with prostitutes. Rainbow Stories is beautiful, but contains some incredibly disturbing stuff.
Poppy Z. Brite
Kathe Koja

I agree with you about Poppy Brite - I like the books but they are emotionally exhausting.

[nogdog~6op6ou]

Books that take us out of our comfort zone, that challenge, confront or confound...

Writing that is designed to elicit an emotional response/reaction in the reader...

To me, those are two different things which may or may not overlap. Hopefully all writing (at least fiction) is "designed to elicit an emotional response/reaction in the reader." On the other hand, books that do all the former stuff do not necessarily do the emotional part, and in that case are probably a failure (for me), assuming the author hadn't just written it that way to be obnoxious, pretentious, or whatever.

[purplepen79]

I have never read Salmon Rushdie or Matt Vollmann, but now I want to after reading this thread.

To me, those are two different things which may or may not overlap. Hopefully all writing (at least fiction) is "designed to elicit an emotional response/reaction in the reader." On the other hand, books that do all the former stuff do not necessarily do the emotional part, and in that case are probably a failure (for me), assuming the author hadn't just written it that way to be obnoxious, pretentious, or whatever.

You might enjoy B.R. Myers's A Reader's Manifesto:  An Attack on the Growing Pretentiousness in American Literary Prose.  Myers wrote a brilliant analysis of the state of modern literary fiction--it's pretty controversial, but spot on in my opinion.  I don't necessarily agree with everything Myers writes, but I definitely agree with his basic premise that a writer using difficult or strange syntax and metaphor usually indicates poor writing, not literary genius.  A writer's job is to communicate emotions and thoughts in words, not take the reader on some wild goose chase through a swamp of muddy prose.

Here's a list of a few books I've found challenging for various reasons but ultimately satisfying--some of these may be considered young adult books, but oftentimes, at least to me, the real gut-wrenching stuff cloaks itself in seeming simplicity:

Night by Elie Wiezel
Collected Poems by TS Eliot
Ariel by Sylvia Plath
Deerskin by Robin McKinley
A Bloodsmoor Romance by Joyce Carol Oates
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson
In Cold Blood by Truman Capote
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
Anthem by Ayn Rand
The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout
Green Angel by Alice Hoffman

[Geemont]

Myers wrote a brilliant analysis of the state of modern literary fiction--it's pretty controversial, but spot on in my opinion.  I don't necessarily agree with everything Myers writes, but I definitely agree with his basic premise that a writer using difficult or strange syntax and metaphor usually indicates poor writing, not literary genius.

I can't remember the source, but I heard someone talking about the future of literature at the turn of the century being fought out with H.G. Wells and Henry James as the figureheads.  Both authors are very distinctive and it may not be too much of a stretch to say that Wells fathered genre fiction and James literary fiction.  (It's hard to be sure when I can't check the source.)

While it doesn't always follow that simple language will disguise simple thoughts, I find if the author uses  a language, syntax, and structure too easy to follow, the effect on can can to opposite of its intent, causing more distraction or inattention by not having enough for my mind to focus on.

[Thalia the Muse]

My problem with Vollman's hooker books is that they're BORING. I guess I don't share his obsession ... I haven't read Royal Family, but maybe I'll give it a shot -- it sounds like it goes beyond "Wow, I love hanging around beautiful young prostitutes and sleeping with them, but it's deeper when I do it because I'm sensitive to their plight and really self-aware."

Vollman's You Bright and Risen Angels blew me away when I first read it -- I picked it up at random because the title and cover were so awesome, and it's really one of the most striking books I've ever read. Not, sadly, on Kindle.

For first-person serial killer: Obviously, American Psycho. Also, The Killer Inside Me and Pop. 1280, by Jim Thompson. Both of the Thompson books are excellent, and funny in a really dark way.

[WritersWife]

I second Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" and William Golding's "Lord of the Flies."

I also have enjoyed Wally Lamb, Norman Mailer, Cormac McCarthy and George Orwell. All of these authors have written challenging books that have made me think, laugh and cry. I love books/authors that can do this.

[nogdog~6op6ou]

I can't remember the source, but I heard someone talking about the future of literature at the turn of the century being fought out with H.G. Wells and Henry James as the figureheads.  Both authors are very distinctive and it may not be too much of a stretch to say that Wells fathered genre fiction and James literary fiction.  (It's hard to be sure when I can't check the source.)

While it doesn't always follow that simple language will disguise simple thoughts, I find if the author uses  a language, syntax, and structure too easy to follow, the effect on can can to opposite of its intent, causing more distraction or inattention by not having enough for my mind to focus on.

As with most such things when dealing with artistic creations (or inartistic ones, at times), it tends to be an "it depends" sort of thing. I have read "challenging" books that really moved me or otherwise made an impression on me, and some that seemed to be more of a "the medium is the message" sort of thing. And I have read "simple" books that moved me a lot -- though it may be that "deceptively simple" was often a better description -- and many that were shallow and at best just a fun way to pass the time.

But the same can be said of music. There are complex, rule-breaking, cutting edge works that have worked very well for me; while others to which the same adjectives could be applied ended up sounding as if the composer simply set out to create a musical piece that was complex and avant-garde, leaving me feeling empty and totally unmoved. Yet the simplest of songs, when well constructed and performed, can be every bit as moving. Which sends the bigger chill up my spine: the climax of Beethoven's 9th Symphony or a beautifully performed a capella choral version of "Danny Boy" or "Amazing Grace"? (The correct answer is: whichever one I just listened to. )

[Steve Silkin]

You might enjoy B.R. Myers's A Reader's Manifesto:  An Attack on the Growing Pretentiousness in American Literary Prose.  Myers wrote a brilliant analysis of the state of modern literary fiction--it's pretty controversial, but spot on in my opinion.  

i remember that. i also remember lee siegel's response:

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/05/books/bk-30686

i thought he did a pretty good job defending some of the writers.

[Thalia the Muse]

I hadn't read the Siegel piece before -- thank you!

[SidneyW]

Haruki Murakami, especially The Wind Up Bird Chronicle.

The Limeworks by Thomas Bernhard

[Geemont]

The Limeworks by Thomas Bernhard

You might be the first other person I've encountered who's read Thomas Bernhard.