DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 3/2 Reading Chps 8-14, Discuss Chps 1-7 here

[Toby]

***I'm still here Just ordered my K2 last night/early morning. Will get tomorrow, so have been too jumpy to write here all week, but am reading.
***My vacination was on my leg or tussie as well. My mother told the Dr. not to put it in my arm as it leaves a big ugly crater mark. Where the heck is it?
***I think that Claire is made to be more reckless, is to show her personality/character. She gets, the heroine gets into trouble & Jamie, the hero, or other men now have to protect her. Also, she's a nurse who later becomes a Dr. She is used to helping the sick & dam the topedos. I kept yelling at her...NOOOOO, you're pregnant!!! Stay away!!! She thought that she was helping, not knowing why she shouldn't help.
***I too want to know how Jamie's family is fairing.
***Now, if Bree goes back with Claire, will she fall in love with someone in the past - 200 years. Bree would seem a bit younger than say Claire, as she is the product of her upbringing as well as the times. All I know is, I was alot more independent than my nephews when I was still a wee one. I was doing a lot more for myself than they were doing. Now, they are both brains in college. Hmmm, a good age for Bree. I hadn't thought of that before. 
*** Jamie & Claire are just biding their time in France. Otherwise, Jamie & Claire were both happy at home with family.
***The Lever, sheesh, I'd need privacy, not a party of people gawking at me!!!! LOL! I'd die of embarrassment.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

***I'm still here Just ordered my K2 last night/early morning. Will get tomorrow, so have been too jumpy to write here all week, but am reading.

Wow, once you decide to take the plunge, you go for it all.  Overnight delivery?  We won't expect to see you today because you'll be running around flagging down every FedEx truck in sight.    May you not have long to wait. 

***My vacination was on my leg or tussie as well. My mother told the Dr. not to put it in my arm as it leaves a big ugly crater mark. Where the heck is it?

That was my Mom's reason, too. 

***I think that Claire is made to be more reckless, is to show her personality/character. She gets, the heroine gets into trouble & Jamie, the hero, or other men now have to protect her. Also, she's a nurse who later becomes a Dr. She is used to helping the sick & dam the topedos. I kept yelling at her...NOOOOO, you're pregnant!!! Stay away!!! She thought that she was helping, not knowing why she shouldn't help.

Claire's reckless personality is exaggerated in order to advance the story?  Yes, I can see that, especially having read the whole series.   

[Anju No. 469]

ok gonna try to be good and start actively participating! 

Part One--Dragonfly in Amber

Prologue

1.  What do you think was happening to Claire?
  She was in both times and missing Jamie but belonging elsewhere

"Through a Looking Glass, Darkly"
Chapter One:

1. When last we left Jamie and Claire, they had decided to go to Rome and Claire was pregnant.  What did you think as you read the first chapter of Dragonfly in Amber?

As I did when I first read this book that I missed something, another book was in between, had to verify that DIA was next

2. First impressions of Roger Wakefield?
Good Guy

3. First impressions of Brianna Randall?
definitely Jamies daughter

4. How does beginning the search affect Claire?
since we know there are other books, we know Jamie is not dead, but at this point she believes he died at Culloden

"And speaking their names as though to summon them, I began the first steps back, crossing the empty dark to where they waited." - Claire

Chapter Two:

“... finally a doubtful speculation from an aged farmer that the old parish records might have gone to the museum in Fort William, or maybe up to Inverness; there was a mnister up that way who collected such rubbish.”

1. How did you feel about the description of Broch Tuarach in ruins?
sad even though that is not realistic to expect it to be standing after 200 years

2. What did you think of Fiona Graham (compared to her grandmother)?
welllll she wants to get married before she becomes an old maid, and who else better than Roger?

3. Why do you think we are getting most of this info so far through Roger's eyes and not Claire's?
showing what the typical reaction would be

4.  Why do you think Claire went pale when Briana said, “Oh, aye?” said Brianna sweetly, in a perfect imitation of his own slight scots burr.  “Well, we’ll hope it’s no a capital offense like murrderr, shall we?”
she sounded just like Jamie

Chapter Three:

1. Why couldn't Claire take her daughter to see Culloden?
she thought Jamie died there and could not herself handle the sadness

"I dropped peacefully into sleep, to dream of kilted Highland men, and the sound of soft-spoken
Scots, burring round a fire like the sound of bees in the heather." - Claire

Chapter Four:

1. We know Roger is attracted to Bree, but do you think she is attracted to him at this point?
she is not unattracted to him - young cute unattached bachelor, most females in Bree's age group would look at least twice

2. At the end of the chapter, what did you think Claire's nightmare was about? ("...Not that I
remembered much about it, but I had a vague impression of hands that gripped me, rough and
urgent, not wooing but compelling. And a voice, nearly shouting, that echoed in the chambers of
my inner ear, along with the sound of my fading heartbeat." - Claire)
Jamie and her "connection" to him throughout the years and his absence in the here and now - and by being in Scotland

3. Whose voice does she hear? ("You are mine...Mine! And I will not let you go.")
Jamie

Chapter Five:

1. What did you think of Roger and Bree's first kiss?
perfect

2.  What did you think Claire meant when she saw Randall’s gravestone and said, “Jonathan Wolverton Randall,” she said softly, “1705-1746.  I told you, didn’t I?  You bastard, I told you!”  How did you feel?
she had told him at sometime when he was going to die, don't remember just when it was, and she was glad to find the verification

3. How did you feel when Claire found Jamie's gravestone at St. Kilda's?
she thought he had died in the battle - not later and would not have left him - but there were no dates

4. First impressions of Claire's confession?
she should have just sucked it up and done it

“Jamie was my heart and the breath of my body.”

5.  Does Brianna seem like she believes Claire about the time-travel?
she thinks her mother has a definite mental problem, but interesting enough Roger seems to half believe her

I'll have to do the other questions later, I didn't check how far to read, thought it was just Book 1.  YEA something fun to read tonight, as if I didn't have Distant Cousin and In Her Name to answer (Jan's questions are tough)

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Welcome back, Anju.  Catch up when you can. 

[Toby]

***Hi Gertie! Yes, this past week waiting was making me unhinged. I kept telling people that I had something on my mind, but didn't say that I waiting to order the Kindle. I got Amazon Prime as Luv had mentioned. I had expected to get it on Monday, but I thought for about $3 more, I'd get it the next day, & hope it came before I went out for dinner. I actually ordered on Fri at 12:30AM or late Thurs night.(Also, during the week, the parents are parked in front to pick up the kiddies in the afternoon & their driving is wild. Plus, I have to go to work.) So, yesterday, I got up at 7:30AM, looked out. Not there. Put bathrobe on in preparation to race to the door when I heard my dog bark or truck sound & went back to bed. About 10:17AM, in a deep sleep, my dog barked. I thought it must be the mailman, but my dog barked a bit longer than usual. Got up, ran to window. Saw the end of the USP truck parked in front. Looked at my front door. It's here!!! I also thought that Amazon was sending FEDEX, but I remember someone said, that for overnight packages, UPS also works on Sat.
***Anyway, I've read the K1 guide that came with the software update on the K1. Finished that & Friday read about 2/3rds of the K2 guide. I wished I had the K2 for the Outlander book, just for the heavy dictionary usage, in that book. I had trouble whispersyncing the DIA Book in my K1 tonight. It didn't work. Not sure why as yet.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

How great, Toby.  Good luck Whispersyncing.  How are you going to decide which K to read on?   

[louisev]

Hi everybody.  I happened to start reading "Outlander" last week and finished it night before last before plunging into Dragonfly in Amber.  It looks like a ton of people have already answered most of the questions as I would have, but I did want to put in my two cents on what I thought on picking up the sequel.

I was very frustrated, frankly.  Clearly from the circumstances we are given, we know that Claire has returned to the present.  What we don't know is why, and what happened to Jamie considering we last saw them at Ste Anne de Beaupre on their way to Paris.  I found it difficult to concentrate or even care about what a frantic and compulsive housekeeper Fiona is, or how much garbage was piled up in Rev. Wakefield's study because of it.  I don't generally skip through books to find out how they end, but I was sorely tempted here, and I think that it was a logistical mistake with the structure by the author.

Maybe I should be asking this question in the first book club thread, but did anyone here feel like there is something extremely confusing about the whole Wentworth Prison thing?  What was the purpose of bringing half of Dougal's men with them to Wentworth if only Murtagh went with Claire - and why were they never mentioned again?  I was really left wondering on that score.  As well as the strange confusion about Randall's death and the fact that Randall still seems to have died on time.  And another loose end that really bothered me was that nothing was ever mentioned about sending word back to Jenny and Ian.  Just some questions as I start out with the new story.

[bosslady402]

It would be hard to answer your questions without giving you spoilers, the best I can say is just to keep reading.

There are many parts of the story throughout the whole series that take quite a while to wrap up, and the wrap-up occurs sometimes one or two books later.  I just read some excerpts from book 7 that DG posted on her website, and one of them brings up a loose end that was from book 2!

I guess it comes down to what style of writing you prefer - personally, I liked the way she did it, because it was unpredictable and made for a more complex storyline.

what a frantic and compulsive housekeeper Fiona is, or how much garbage was piled up in Rev. Wakefield's study because of it. 

The disarray in the study wasn't Fiona's fault - and the fact that The Reverend was such a pack-rat has bearing on later parts of the story. Fiona might seem like a ditz right now, but don't write her off, she'll have her 15 minutes of fame in later books.

Maybe I should be asking this question in the first book club thread, but did anyone here feel like there is something extremely confusing about the whole Wentworth Prison thing?  What was the purpose of bringing half of Dougal's men with them to Wentworth if only Murtagh went with Claire - and why were they never mentioned again? 

hmm, good question, I don't remember specifically, unless they realized when they got there that the solution was by trickery (pretending someone stole the cows) rather than strength of arms?

As well as the strange confusion about Randall's death and the fact that Randall still seems to have died on time. 

You'll see!!!

And another loose end that really bothered me was that nothing was ever mentioned about sending word back to Jenny and Ian. 

I guess some things are just assumed to have happened; after all, MacRannoch knows that Jamie is at the abbey, because he sends the wolf-pelt there; so it makes sense that Jenny & Ian have been kept up to date as well, even if you don't actually see it written.

Hang in there!

[Anju No. 469]

nice answers Bosslady - no spoilers!  Just have to keep reading and reading and reading and      it will all come about soon enough.

[louisev]

I guess some things are just assumed to have happened; after all, MacRannoch knows that Jamie is at the abbey, because he sends the wolf-pelt there; so it makes sense that Jenny & Ian have been kept up to date as well, even if you don't actually see it written.

Hang in there!

hoo boy so of most of this stuff was planned this way, then it's pretty Byzantine!  I'm not quite in the middle of "DiA" so I guess... I"ll find out.

[Toby]

Hi Gertie, K1 goes out with me. K2 stays home. Right now, I have the K2 fitted in the bottom 2 corners & upper right stretching corner of my K1 red M-edge. The K2 sticks out at the top, but at least the glass is protected for now.Then, next month, I plan to order the Oberon cover & Decalgirl skin for the K2. When I get the cover, the K2 will go out with me & the K1 will stay home. It's basically the same weight, but being thinner, the K2 will take up less room in my handbag. The Outlander Series will be read on the K2, because of the new dictionary feature on the K2. I don't use the dictionary as much as the Outlander. Which reminds me there was a scottish words I wanted to ask here, but now I forgot.  ::)I plan to read on both Kindles as I like both.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

hmm, good question, I don't remember specifically, unless they realized when they got there that the solution was by trickery (pretending someone stole the cows) rather than strength of arms?

Exactly.  Murtagh and Claire really didn't have a plan for getting Jamie out of Wentworth.  It wasn't until Murtagh realized that Rupert had lifted MacRannoch's cattle that the solution occurred to him. 

I guess some things are just assumed to have happened; after all, MacRannoch knows that Jamie is at the abbey, because he sends the wolf-pelt there; so it makes sense that Jenny & Ian have been kept up to date as well, even if you don't actually see it written.

I don't think Jamie would have wanted Jenny told that he had escaped.  The English are bound to question Jenny and Ian, and the less they know, the better.  He would have wanted them protected. 

hoo boy so of most of this stuff was planned this way, then it's pretty Byzantine!  I'm not quite in the middle of "DiA" so I guess... I"ll find out.

I'm with bosslady on this.  Kinda keeps you on the edge of your seat.   

[tlshaw *Padded Cell 511*]

I don't think Jamie would have wanted Jenny told that he had escaped.  The English are bound to question Jenny and Ian, and the less they know, the better.  He would have wanted them protected. 

I agree. It was much safer to Jenny to assume Jamie had died at Wentworth Prison. In this case, ignorance was definitely bliss. Although I hate to think that Jenny was mourning Jamie for a second time when he was still alive. The first time Randall arrested him, she thought he had been hanged, but Dougal had helped him escape.

[bosslady402]

I don't think Jamie would have wanted Jenny told that he had escaped.  The English are bound to question Jenny and Ian, and the less they know, the better.  He would have wanted them protected. 

If the English came to question them, that would have told her right off that he escaped - no purpose in questioning a dead man's family.

I agree. It was much safer to Jenny to assume Jamie had died at Wentworth Prison. In this case, ignorance was definitely bliss. Although I hate to think that Jenny was mourning Jamie for a second time when he was still alive. The first time Randall arrested him, she thought he had been hanged, but Dougal had helped him escape.

If he had died, she would have found out about it. I know he purposefully did not give the warden any next-of-kin info, but there were at least a half-dozen men (plus Claire) that knew he was there, and knew he was to hang.  If he had died, they would have claimed the body for burial, or at the very least sent word that it was over.

And I don't think Jenny even knew he was in prison; Claire found out about that from Dougal, weeks after Jenny had left to go back home. The span of time between when Claire found him in Wentworth, and them escaping to France, was I think less than a week.

So as long as Jenny wasn't told anything, and didn't hear from any of the guys, and no word from Claire, and no body, she would have assumed he was still hiding. Once he got to France, he was safe, and had no need to hide; there would be no danger then in letting them know he was ok.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

If the English came to question them, that would have told her right off that he escaped - no purpose in questioning a dead man's family.

Yes, Jenny would have known that Jamie was still at large, but she still wouldn't know if he was safe. 

If he had died, she would have found out about it. I know he purposefully did not give the warden any next-of-kin info, but there were at least a half-dozen men (plus Claire) that knew he was there, and knew he was to hang.  If he had died, they would have claimed the body for burial, or at the very least sent word that it was over.

Claire couldn't claim Jamie's body.  She was in as much danger from Randall as Jamie.  Dougal has too much to hide from the English.  Even though he defied Randall for Claire, he would have put the Stuart cause before a dead body. 

And I don't think Jenny even knew he was in prison; Claire found out about that from Dougal, weeks after Jenny had left to go back home. The span of time between when Claire found him in Wentworth, and them escaping to France, was I think less than a week.

Considering that Dougal lied to Jamie about Jenny and Randall, he might not have gotten involved even to tell Jenny anything he knew about Jamie. 

So as long as Jenny wasn't told anything, and didn't hear from any of the guys, and no word from Claire, and no body, she would have assumed he was still hiding. Once he got to France, he was safe, and had no need to hide; there would be no danger then in letting them know he was ok.

There was still a danger to Jenny and Ian even though Jamie was safely in France. 

louisev, thanks for starting this discussion.  There is so much in these books.  We appreciate that you brought up things we missed.  Keep it up. 

[Anju No. 469]

Chapter Six:

1. What are your impressions of Claire and Jamie in this chapter?
just an old fashioned love story

"Oh, Claire, ye do break my heart wi' loving you." - Jamie

2. Was it difficult to imagine Jamie as an attendant to royalty (Charles Stuart)?
my imagination completely left me - no way Jose

3. What did you think of the scene where Jamie returns to the inn completely drunk?
no surprised, after all he was checking out a "wine merchant"

4. First impressions of Jared Munro Fraser?
shrewd

5. What did you think when Claire decided to examine the sick sailor from The Patagonia?
a little dangerous and risky and dumb

6. First impressions of Monsieur le Comte (St. Germain)?
typical adversary with more money than caring for the people, wants more money

7. Do you think Claire is more aware of the danger posed by St. Germain than she has been of other dangers?
this is an area where she is completely naive

Chapter Seven:

1.. Do you think Jamie and Claire seem natural in Paris Society?
no

2. Impressions of the King's lever?
realistic at the time - but 

3.  What did you think of Charles Stuart?
pompous twit

4.  Forgetting what you know about history, do you think Jamie and Claire have any chance of at least altering history, if not changing it completely?
realistically - no


“It leaves me selling wine to bankers, Sassenach,” he said, yawning.”  And you talking to parlormaids.  And if we blow enough smoke, perhaps we’ll stun the bees.”

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

3.  What did you think of Charles Stuart?
pompous twit

 

[k_reader]

Hi everyone,  I just wanted to bounce something off you guys re: Dragonfly in Amber:

While reading the early chapters of Dragonfly in Amber, I had noticed something that really threw me off. The multiple references to Brianna's turning 21 soon and how you can't drink in Massachusetts until you are 21.

As far as I know (I'm pretty sure, I just googled it), the drinking age in Massachusetts in 1968 was 18.  It only went to 20 in 1980, then to 21 in 1984.  I grew up in Massachusetts and remember in the early 80s people talking about being "grandfathered in" to the new drinking age of 21.... It threw me for a loop because it seems so obvious (to me, and I'm only 36) that the drinking age would have been much less than 21 in 1968.  Diana didn't mention this as an error in the errors section of the Outlandish Companion.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Hi everyone,  I just wanted to bounce something off you guys re: Dragonfly in Amber:

While reading the early chapters of Dragonfly in Amber, I had noticed something that really threw me off. The multiple references to Brianna's turning 21 soon and how you can't drink in Massachusetts until you are 21.

As far as I know (I'm pretty sure, I just googled it), the drinking age in Massachusetts in 1968 was 18.  It only went to 20 in 1980, then to 21 in 1984.  I grew up in Massachusetts and remember in the early 80s people talking about being "grandfathered in" to the new drinking age of 21.... It threw me for a loop because it seems so obvious (to me, and I'm only 36) that the drinking age would have been much less than 21 in 1968.  Diana didn't mention this as an error in the errors section of the Outlandish Companion.

It's quite possible that no one has brought it to her attention before.  DG obviously used it as a device to alert Roger as to Briana's date of birth so he would see she couldn't be Frank's child.

Another thing that bothered me is that surely Roger would have seen Frank Randall either at The Manse (I think Frank did travel to Scotland several times) or on the back of his books. As a history professor, and someone who has grown up with a Jacobite scholar, wouldn't he have read Frank's books?  Wouldn't he notice that Briana looks distinctly different than either of her parents?

Ah, little mistakes. 

[bosslady402]

It's quite possible that no one has brought it to her attention before.  DG obviously used it as a device to alert Roger as to Briana's date of birth so he would see she couldn't be Frank's child.

I remember her saying sometimes she writes things that she's not sure about, meaning to change them later - and then she forgets. She may have meant to check on the legal age, but never got around to it. I cought an error too, but it would be a spoiler if I mentioned it here.

And also, in the Companion, DG says Brianna was born in Nov of 1948 - so she is only 19 when she meets Roger in the spring of 1968.  DG meant to say that she'd be 21 in a year and a half.

Another thing that bothered me is that surely Roger would have seen Frank Randall either at The Manse (I think Frank did travel to Scotland several times) or on the back of his books. As a history professor, and someone who has grown up with a Jacobite scholar, wouldn't he have read Frank's books? 

I don't remember having learned what Roger's specialty was? But it does seem odd that, knowing that Frank had visited several times (although the most recent was 10 years prior, I think) Roger wouldn't have at least gotten some autographed copies...  And now that you mention it, Roger was there when Claire disappeared - and, assumably, when she re-appeared - things like that are not something you can hide (or have need to hide) in a household that small. How come he doesn't remember it?

Wouldn't he notice that Briana looks distinctly different than either of her parents?

Maybe he wasn't a suspicious/gossipy kind of guy - Fiona would have noticed!! (if she thought to look)

[k_reader]

And also, in the Companion, DG says Brianna was born in Nov of 1948 - so she is only 19 when she meets Roger in the spring of 1968.  DG meant to say that she'd be 21 in a year and a half.

Diana does mention this error in the companion.  She said it was a math mistake mistake....

I'm just surprised I'm the first one to notice it (regarding the drinking age)... Dragonfly in Amber was written over 10 years ago and the Companion was written well after Dragonfly.  Most of the errors mentioned in the Companion were so unimportant (to me, I guess) (like herbs that wouldn't have existed at the time) etc... But the drinking age thing was so obvious to me!  Obviously, this is not a big deal to the story, just a bit of trivia I guess.

[bosslady402]

But the drinking age thing was so obvious to me!  Obviously, this is not a big deal to the story, just a bit of trivia I guess.

Now that you mention it, I doubt there was anywhere in the country where it wasn't 18 in 1968 - In NYS I remember having to go dry for about 2 weeks when it went from 18 to 19 at the end of 1982. So everybody missed this one!

You should pursue a career in proof-reading.

[k_reader]

I'm not a good proof reader, really!  I just totally REMEMBER the whole drinking age thing vividly!  The minute I saw it in the book, I thought... uh in 1968, no way the drinking age was 21 (anywhere in the US).  I get what she was trying to do, She talks about it in 2 separate passages about how you have to be 21 to drink in Massachusetts. She was trying to let Roger (and us) know what Brianna's age was.  I just can't believe no one (editors) else picked it up and the readers didn't mention it to her before writing the Companion.  They seemed to have found a bunch of other insignificant details.