"Bad guy" main character versus "good guy" main character.

[EGranfors]

A Million Little Pieces

The Evolution of Bruno Littlemore(?) (he's a chimp and very arrogant!)

[Bards and Sages (Julie)]

I also thought of Conan for another example--brutish, womanizing, given to excess, but the consummate fantasy hero.  Is he good or evil?  We can ask that question for any character: are they wholly good or evil, or a mix of varying qualities?

I think we tend to think in very black and white terms, and therefore still cling to ideas like good and evil.  But in truth evil people don't consider themselves evil.  I really don't envision someone wakes up in the morning, pours a cup of coffee, and says "I believe I shall be extremely evil today.  Now I shall start by kicking a puppy." 

Lestat was a great example.  He talks about evil, but honestly one wonders if he even understands the concept.  Conan kicks butt, but that is because he wants to beat people up.  Not neccessarily save the world.  The entire Sellswords series by R.A. Salvatore follows Jarlaxle and Artemis, the bad guys from the Drizzt books, but even though they do evil things, it is clear they don't put stock in the definitions of good and evil.


And evil is relative.  Who is the villain in Merchant of Venice?  We know who the villain is suppose to be based on the norms of the era.  But who would be the villain today?  Heck, who is the real villain in the Book of Job? The devil, who wants to bet God that he can tempt Job into sin, or God for LETTING HIM TRY?

[Ottilie]

Haha fun question!  I do enjoy an occational good boy in books, but there is just something about readinging a mysterious bad boy who has another side to him.  The recent one for me is Ren from Nightshade, another is Roiben in Tithe who was a black knight   It is really bad to be a sucker for them...

[Markterry]

I'd second (or third) Artemis Fowl.

[Markterry]

I'd second (or third) Artemis Fowl.

[marktrainer]

A lot of the classic noir crime novels have bad guys as the protagonist.  The Killer Inside Me, The Postman Always Rings Twice and Double Indemnity come to mind right away.

I think most of us have a deep fear of breaking the law alongside a buried desire to do whatever the heck we want.  It can be thrilling to see how things play out for characters who do the stuff we secretly want to do.  I also think that the squalid ends most of these protagonists meet reassure us that we're better off not going that route.

[markarayner]

Chuck Palahniuk...didn't he write Choke and Fight Club? 

You got it.  And I was thinking also of Rant and Survivor -- both feature pretty flawed anti-heros.

[SM Johnson]

Bad guy main character that I ALWAYS rooted for was.... drumroll (and put on your memory stretching hats) Don Pendleton's The Executioner - Mack Bolan. He was a very bad guy, who dedicated his life to killing ever "badder" bad buys.

Similarly, how about Lee Child's character, Jack Reacher? Talk about the ultimate revenge fantasy. "What, you won't serve me a cup of coffee in this town? Fine. I'll dig deep until I find corruption, and then I'll blow up your city/county building. You'll wish you served me coffee instead of trying to run me out of tonw!" (Not a direct quote, btw, just very wide and generalized paraphrasing).

Pehaps I am confusing "bad guy" main character with anti-hero. Regardless, I love both of the above.

[mjdispirito]

I think we tend to think in very black and white terms, and therefore still cling to ideas like good and evil.  But in truth evil people don't consider themselves evil.  I really don't envision someone wakes up in the morning, pours a cup of coffee, and says "I believe I shall be extremely evil today.  Now I shall start by kicking a puppy." 

Lestat was a great example.  He talks about evil, but honestly one wonders if he even understands the concept.  Conan kicks butt, but that is because he wants to beat people up.  Not neccessarily save the world.  The entire Sellswords series by R.A. Salvatore follows Jarlaxle and Artemis, the bad guys from the Drizzt books, but even though they do evil things, it is clear they don't put stock in the definitions of good and evil.


And evil is relative.  Who is the villain in Merchant of Venice?  We know who the villain is suppose to be based on the norms of the era.  But who would be the villain today?  Heck, who is the real villain in the Book of Job? The devil, who wants to bet God that he can tempt Job into sin, or God for LETTING HIM TRY?

I just had to bump this one... Excellent exposition, Julie.  One of the better ones I've read on the subject.

[Rex Jameson]

The Vampire Lestat is my favorite Anne Rice book.  Lestat has an interesting personality.  I can handle reading from a villain's perspective if he or she is interesting.  Characters in general, whether "good" or "bad," have to be interesting to hold my interest!   

This is one I definitely need to read again. The only reason I even considered reading the next few Anne Rice books was because of The Vampire Lestat. Lestat was not a good guy, and that was a welcome change in protagonists for me at the time.

I'm definitely fine with an evil doer or an especially flawed hero as a protagonist. The flaws of Corwin in the Great Book of Amber were also really interesting to me. When he led an assault on his own land that caused a great rift, I found myself captivated. I might have even not liked the Merlin subseries as much as the first 5 books in The Great Book of Amber because Merlin was nowhere near as interesting as his father Corwin, imo. I actually found myself liking Luke and his mother quite a bit more than I liked Merlin in the last five books.

I'm going to have to reread that entire series again. Unfortunately, I loaned it to an old girlfriend. Guess I'll have to pick up the series again !

[purplepen79]

Corwin from the Chronicles of Amber . . . thank you for that great example, rexjameson!  Love those books, especially the ones featuring Corwin.

[Tony Rabig]

Run, do not walk, to your bookstore/library/computer and grab the series of novels Donald Westlake (writing as Richard Stark) wrote about the professional thief Parker.  Wonderful dark and gritty stuff.  Westlake's stand-alone chillers THE AX and THE HOOK are also well worth your time (and a lot of writers will probably love the opening chapters of THE HOOK).

Bests to all,

Tony Rabig

--- edited... no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread.

[Patrick Skelton]

I liked the conflicted bad guy main character..particularly if there is redemption.

[markarayner]

Corwin from the Chronicles of Amber . . . thank you for that great example, rexjameson!  Love those books, especially the ones featuring Corwin.

Oh, and Elric of Melinbone too!

[SidneyW]

Run, do not walk, to your bookstore/library/computer and grab the series of novels Donald Westlake (writing as Richard Stark) wrote about the professional thief Parker.  

I was wondering as I scrolled through if anyone was going to mention Parker, because he's the first character that came to my mind. The first book, which they seem to make over and mover into movies, is a great one, and the others in the series are always engrossing, to me, as well. Tough stuff with a tough, bad guy lead.

[Guy James]

I think James Patterson does a very good job of this in the way he has good guy and bad guy povs. It's a nice contrast that he sets up. That way, you can have both, and the reader can find things he likes in each pov and can secretly root for the bad guy in some instances.

[Picatsso]

I always ask myself why I want the crooks to get away with the loot....but only if they are cute and interesting and funny....dumb.

Like Oceans Eleven.....you WANT them to get away with it...just 'cause it's cool.

[Tamara Rose Blodgett]

Really tough (I'd think) to write a POV making the protagonist be sympathetic to like and also "hate." But, when it's done well, it is way-better/exciting/engaging than the regular, "good-guy-main." Personally, a flawed character resonates much better with me. I like people to prevail against terrible circumstances and make tough choices based on doing the right thing...or sometimes the wrong thing because that's all they could "see" to do. Thoughtful question...those are the type that get us all thinking!