Please Writers, include pagecount and wordcount in your blurbs ...

[TheSFReader]

This is a follow-up/redirect from an other thread :
You writers want to help us choose and buy your books. We, readers want to find and buy ebooks. However, we need an indication of length to make "informed decision". Amazon uses an esoteric "locations" count, which we all agree is useless. Some suggest we use the file size, but since it is mostly dependant on the images size ad compression, it's useless too.
It leaves two values : "pages count" and "word count".
While most readers are more used to "pages count", it definitely is not an objective number, and depending on the reading software, it can vary. It can be approximated by something like "4 pages per 1000 words", or "250-350 words per page", so why not ... but then please add the "rule" you used to compute that pages count ... In the meantime, by writing down explicitely the exact number of words, you'll ensure that you inform us readers, and hence help us make the decision.
For most readers, that wordcount may well be meaningless, however, the more they'll see it, the more they'll "get" how it scales regarding a book's length.

[VKScott]

I don't know why more authors don't do this. It's really simple, and would help alleviate a lot of the "I-didn't-know-this-was-a-short-story-BLAM-one-star" reviews.

[EverythingIndie]

Totally agree, and it's something I do with my own titles and I wish more people did with theirs. Once the Kindle software has been fully updated to include page counts across the board, then it won't be so much of an issue - but right now it is a problem and one I agree more writers need to address. The word count (I'm not so bothered about page count, because that can be artificially increased or decreased, whereas word count can't) should be included somewhere within the blurb. And yes, it would definitely prevent all those one-star 'too short' reviews.

[TheSFReader]

TOnce the Kindle software has been fully updated to include page counts across the board, then it won't be so much of an issue

It won't be so much of an issue for Kindle users ...

[altworld]

I think its almost impossible to give a page count for an eBook, considering you can change the size of the font/text to your own settings. Odd that Amazon doesn't auto-count words in the submitted manuscripts thought.
Arigato,
Nick Davis

[Todd Russell]

For those with titles in the iBookstore via Smashwords that don't have a DTB (Dead Tree Book), the iBookstore estimates the number of pages for ebooks in their catalog. See:



This information is also available through the web (example of my book here) for those who don't have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad with the iBooks app.

[EGranfors]

Good idea

[kCopeseeley]

I am very careful to label the approx. page count in my short story titles, but I had no idea it was such a big deal for novels, as well.  I can do that, easily.

The thing about word count though, most readers that I talk to (as a reader, not a writer) have NO idea how many pages that translates into.  I agree, Amazon should give us a better way to do that.

[swolf]

I think its almost impossible to give a page count for an eBook, considering you can change the size of the font/text to your own settings.

That's true, but when I list them in my blurb, I call them 'standard pages' to let the reader know it may be different on their kindle.  (I get the page count by dividing the word count by 250.)

[swolf]

Once the Kindle software has been fully updated to include page counts across the board

What does that mean?  I know there's a new feature to allow authors to embed page numbers in their ebooks that match the hardcopy page numbers, but I haven't heard anything about page counts.  How is that even possible when the user sets the font size?

[Joseph Rhea]

Luckily for those of us who have both Kindle and paperback editions listed on Amazon, the print length is included on the Kindle page under product details.
Here is Cyberdrome's for example:

Product Details
Format: Kindle Edition
File Size: 1159 KB
Print Length: 292 pages  <-----
Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited
Publisher: CreateSpace; (January 10, 2008)
Sold by: Amazon Digital Services
Language: English
ASIN: B0012Q6G5Y
Lending: Enabled

That could be slightly deceptive, because my book is actually 90,000 words long and at 250 words / page, that would be normally be 360 pages (I used pretty small font in the paperback to keep the price down below $9.00)

[Lisa Scott]

swolf, I do the same thing: page count based on 250 words, and I give the word count as well.  I've also been frustrated several times as a reader having no idea if the title was a short story or novel or what?

[EverythingIndie]

What does that mean?  I know there's a new feature to allow authors to embed page numbers in their ebooks that match the hardcopy page numbers, but I haven't heard anything about page counts.  How is that even possible when the user sets the font size?

Last I heard, Amazon was working on an update to include page numbers rather than locations. I think some of the books have been updated already, though I don't know when (or even definitely if, though that's my assumption) it's being rolled out as a full software update.

 And it wouldn't be too difficult - the software would just calculate the number of screens full of text there are and what screen number the user is currently on, based on the font size, then provide those numbers as page numbers. Then it's just a case of recalculating if the font size is altered. Surely not an insurmountable thing for the wizards working on Kindle hardware and software to take care of.

It won't be so much of an issue for Kindle users ...

Well, yes, that's what I meant 

[edwardgtalbot]

Luckily for those of us who have both Kindle and paperback editions listed on Amazon, the print length is included on the Kindle page under product details.

That's not true of mine, even though the kindle and print edition have been linked just about since I went live.  Do we have to enter the page count somewhere in Author Central?

[swolf]

Last I heard, Amazon was working on an update to include page numbers rather than locations. I think some of the books have been updated already, though I don't know when (or even definitely if, though that's my assumption) it's being rolled out as a full software update.

Are you talking about this?:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=surl_sw_31?nodeId=200529700

Real Page Numbers -- Our customers have told us they want real page numbers that match the page numbers in print books so they can easily reference and cite passages, and read alongside others in a book club or class. We've already added real page numbers to tens of thousands of Kindle books, including the top 100 bestselling books in the Kindle Store that have matching print editions and thousands more of the most popular books. Page numbers will also be available on our free "Buy Once, Read Everywhere" Kindle apps in the coming months. As with all of Kindle's features, we want you to lose yourself in the author's words, so page numbers are only displayed when you press the Menu button.

From what I can tell from reading that, it's only available for books that have hard-copy versions, and the page numbers will only be a fixed reference back to the hard copy, not recalculated every time the font changes.

[modwitch]

Last I heard, Amazon was working on an update to include page numbers rather than locations. I think some of the books have been updated already, though I don't know when (or even definitely if, though that's my assumption) it's being rolled out as a full software update.

It only works for books that have paper versions (and you provide the ISBN).  If you are kindle only, no page numbers.

[foreverjuly]

Yes, I always list word count. It does seem more precise than page count, but as you say it's something readers are more familiar with.

[swolf]

It only works for books that have paper versions (and you provide the ISBN).  If you are kindle only, no page numbers.

I'm assuming there would also be metadata you'd have to add to your file before uploading so you can specify where the hardcopy pages begin and end.  But I've yet to see any kind of technical specifications on how that would be done.

[Mike Cooley]

Scrivener shows the "Paperback Pages" estimate under statistics, so I use that.
My 93,000 word novel came in at about 250 pages.


Mike

[Arkali]

For most readers, that wordcount may well be meaningless, however, the more they'll see it, the more they'll "get" how it scales regarding a book's length.

I've been campaigning for this for a while.  The format I would prefer to see in book descriptions:

This novel/novella/short story/book blurb/anthology is 80,000 words (approximately 267 pages) in length.

ETA:  As for number of pages - it's not rocket science, folks.  Pick a number (250, 300 or 350 seem to be the 3 standards) and stick with it.  The word "approximately" covers your hind end so if you're off by a page or 3 nobody should get up in arms.  For what it's worth, Camille (I believe it was), said that 300 words / page is a better number for approximating print pages as the 250/page is for manuscripts.  YMMV.

[kookoo88]

I've done page count on my Amazon short stories, but I'll start adding word count too.  I'll do it across all of my works.  Thank you for letting writers know about things like this.

Another issue I've found in the past is to put what part of a series a book is in both the description and on the cover. 

[Rhynedahll]

It seems to me that you are confusing quantity with quality.

100K words of crap is still crap, whether you pay $9.99 for it or $.99.

If you buy fiction by the pound (or words), then you would seem to be saying that length not content is the major concern.

Nevertheless, I agree that all ebooks, since it is not possible to gauge their length by their physical size, should be labeled in the standard manner: short story, novella, novel, epic novel, etc.

These should be sufficient for a purchaser to determine whether (s)he's getting his/her money's worth prior to purchase.

After purchase and reading, of course, there will be no doubt.

[swolf]

It seems to me that you are confusing quantity with quality.

I don't see anyone doing that here.

Nevertheless, I agree that all ebooks, since it is not possible to gauge their length by their physical size, should be labeled in the standard manner: short story, novella, novel, epic novel, etc.

These should be sufficient for a purchaser to determine whether (s)he's getting his/her money's worth prior to purchase.

However, some short stories are shorter than others.  There's some writers out there selling stories as short as one or two thousand words.  And other writers are selling ebooks as large as 15-20,000 words and still calling them short stories.

Some readers may think that spending the asking price on a 15,000 word ebook is ok, but wouldn't spend the same amount on 1,000 words.

And there are novels of varying lengths also.  One author may call a 40,000 word book a novel, while another one is selling a 200,000 word epic.  Readers deserve to be informed about what they're being asked to buy.

[RachelAstor]

Thanks for the tip. I just assumed people would know my books were full books and that short stories would clearly state they are short stories.  I'm off to change my blurbs now.

[altworld]

It seems to me that you are confusing quantity with quality.

100K words of crap is still crap, whether you pay $9.99 for it or $.99.

If you buy fiction by the pound (or words), then you would seem to be saying that length not content is the major concern.

Nevertheless, I agree that all ebooks, since it is not possible to gauge their length by their physical size, should be labeled in the standard manner: short story, novella, novel, epic novel, etc.

These should be sufficient for a purchaser to determine whether (s)he's getting his/her money's worth prior to purchase.

After purchase and reading, of course, there will be no doubt.

I have to agree, crud is crud and I've read some drek that are 100K plus in length and still didn't make them any better a tale. I've read shorts less than 2K that leave your heart pounding at the tale they tell, crud I am still amazed by Neil Gaiman's St Nick story and that is 100 words in length.

Labeling them in the standard manner is all that is needed, anymore than that and you get people saying I paid $0.99 for 150K words, why should I pay that for your 12K story. Quantity can easily be confused with quality. Stories are not brought and sold by the pound, although some published Epic Fantasy Authors thinks so.
Arigato,
Nick Davis