A Confused Reader

[pawnslinger]

I started reading the forums this morning, because I find them a source of many good reads.  Books that I would not ordinarily find on my own.  And, often, at a bargain price.  But this morning I found something very strange.  A book that I had recently purchased, after having read about it here, has been pulled off Kindle by the author.  I guess that is the right of the author... but what about the rights of paying customers?  What rights do we have?

I paid money for this Kindle book.  It is still on my Kindle, waiting patiently to be read.  I don't want my money back.  I want what I paid for... is that too much to ask of an author? 

Part of the Kindle experience is that the book can be reloaded onto my Kindle at any time.  The copy on Amazon acts as a back-up.  I have owned my Kindle for about a month, and already I have had to reload it from scratch from Amazon, after my Kindle bricked.

So I am a confused reader.  Anyone want to help me understand WTF is going on?

[LauraB]

If you have it in your media library from Amazon then you own it.  Amazon won't take it out of your media library because the author "pulled it". Now if there are legal problem with the book, copy right issues, or plagiarism, Amazon may be legally forced to pull it from media libraries, but they will give you a refund.

[intinst]

You can also save it on your computer for backup.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Amazon keeps the copy you bought in your media library even if a new edition has been published.  We've seen this happen where our own authors have updated books and we can't get the new copy without buying it.  The old copy that we originally purchased is the one that stays in our library.  It's frustrating for us, sometimes, but it also means your original purchase is safe.

[pawnslinger]

Thanks for the replies.  I feel better knowing that it is safe and that I can manually back-up my Kindle... that is good information to have.  I am very sorry that the author decided to pull this book, the decision is detailed for anyone to read here in this forum.  I won't go into the details of the case here, because it is a closed thread.  But apparantly the author took some criticism that was not welcome.

In my view, no book is perfect.  I understood the nature of this particular book before I made the purchase.  I like to read SF and Horror.  And if these stories have steamy sex, so much the better.  So I was actually interested in this book for the reasons that it was pulled.  As far as I can see, the author has a too thin skin.  There are many of us that enjoy this type of fiction.

I am currently reading/enjoying "Whiskey Sour" by J. A. Konrath.  A book I found here, and it has some graphic sex scenes too.  I would not recommend to the faint of heart, but I read it for escape...

[Carol Hanrahan]

Amazon keeps the copy you bought in your media library even if a new edition has been published.  We've seen this happen where our own authors have updated books and we can't get the new copy without buying it.  The old copy that we originally purchased is the one that stays in our library.  It's frustrating for us, sometimes, but it also means your original purchase is safe.

Gertie,

I just put a new and I hope better cover on my novel, Baling.  Will those who have already purchased it only see the old cover?  I guess it doesn't matter that much, as it is only black and white.  What a long learning curve this is to try to get the best book possible out there!

[Betsy the Quilter]

Your rights as a reader haven't changed.  You own the copy you purchased, it's still in your Media Library, as others have stated.

A higher profile example was the Stand by Stephen King, which many of us bought last year, which has since been pulled from sale.  It is still on my Kindle, working fine, and in my Media Library.

As for the specific book in question, I am sorry the author pulled the book, I hadn't bought my copy yet!  Another example, as we've seen before, if you want a book, buy it before the price goes up or something else happens!

Betsy

[Edward C. Patterson]

You can still enjoy the book (I bought it and it is in my TBR pile). Even though the author pulled the book, it is still at Amazon in DTB edition for $20.00, so we all saved $19.00. I for one will review the book and post my review there. I also will not discuss the matter further except to say that pulling a book from Amazon for reasons other than technical or normal retirement causes all sorts of cross referencing problems should the author wish to reinstate it. Reviews are cross referenced between the paperback, hard cover and kindle versions, as well as links between them. However, this is controlled by the ISBN (DTB) product page, so when the Kindle page (ASIN) is deleted, if restored, the reviews and linkage is lost, not to mention bibliographical information in profiles. Again, the actual thread is closed, but I thought I would mention the implications of such a drastic step to the reader public, something that readers do not see (not need they), but this is a Kindle discussion board, and it is germain to the discussion.

Edward C. Patterson

[GeorgeGlass]

I'm even more confused...what book is it?

[Betsy the Quilter]

Folks,

we locked the thread at the author/original poster's request and it has since been deleted, also at the author/original poster's request. I would ask that we respect a fellow member's request in this matter.

We've answered the general question of whether a book has been pulled can still be accessed by the purchaser, let's move on.

Betsy

[pawnslinger]

I'm even more confused...what book is it?

It is no longer available, so it really doesn't matter.  As a previous post indicated, this particular book is available still in paperback -- for about $20... my guess is that it is somewhat harder to "pull" a physical book off Amazon.

Mainly, I started this thread because I was confused what effect this would have on customers that had already purchased the book -- and the discussion is a general one that potentially could affect anyone who purchased a book that could be pulled.  I had read elsewhere of Kindle 1 customers that couldn't migrate books to their Kindle 2 because the books had been pulled.  The books were still available on their Kindle 1 though.  I am not sure how that works, I wonder if this particuplar book (or others like it, that get pulled) will become a problem when I upgrade to the Kindle 3 or whatever is the next Kindle I purchase?

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Gertie,

I just put a new and I hope better cover on my novel, Baling.  Will those who have already purchased it only see the old cover?  I guess it doesn't matter that much, as it is only black and white.  What a long learning curve this is to try to get the best book possible out there!

Yes, those who originally purchased Baling will have the old cover.  Apparently, the only thing that will change in your media library is the metadata.  Case in point; Mike Hicks In Her Name.  He reissued it as an omnibus and the metadata in my content manager reflects that.  However, the content of the book and the separation into three books does not show in my copy. 

Jeff Hepple's Gone For A Soldier had some changes made to it.  The only way I could get the updated version was to call Amazon customer service, have them delete the book from my media library (they will give you a refund, but only once) and then repurchase the book. 

If the same thing happens with another book, Amazon will delete the book, but not give me a refund.  I will then have to repurchase the book at the current price, which might even be higher than the original price I paid. 

I know ... it's a minefield out there.  We are all learning. 

Good luck to all us Indies.  (Does that make me Indiana Jones?)   

Gertie

[GeorgeGlass]

It is no longer available, so it really doesn't matter.  As a previous post indicated, this particular book is available still in paperback -- for about $20... my guess is that it is somewhat harder to "pull" a physical book off Amazon.

No sweat. I was not/am not in the loop regarding whatever drama apparently transpired to make it an unspeakable subject. But that's fine.

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

Even though we're supposed to move on, all I can say is that I own the hard copy version of the aforementioned book and started reading it this weekend. It really is a wonderful book. I am sorry to see that readers won't have a chance to read it on kindle.

[sigrosenblum]

Even though we're supposed to move on, all I can say is that I own the hard copy version of the aforementioned book and started reading it this weekend. It really is a wonderful book. I am sorry to see that readers won't have a chance to read it on kindle.

I just want to add that one reason authors pull their Kindled books is that if they get a traditional publisher, the new publisher insists on it. And that sounds sensible, especially if there are revisions. Besides, the new firm wants to see their logo on the book, whatever the edition.   

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

I just want to add that one reason authors pull their Kindled books is that if they get a traditional publisher, the new publisher insists on it. And that sounds sensible, especially if there are revisions. Besides, the new firm wants to see their logo on the book, whatever the edition.   

Good point, Sig.  That's what happened with Diane Salerni when High Spirits got picked up by a traditional publisher.  Fortunately, I bought it before that and it's still in my content manager.  So, even in that case, the book doesn't get lost.  I bought it and it's mine.   

[webhill]

I am currently reading/enjoying "Whiskey Sour" by J. A. Konrath.  A book I found here, and it has some graphic sex scenes too.  I would not recommend to the faint of heart, but I read it for escape...

FYI, I just finished reading all of the available Jack Daniels books by Konrath, and I loved them all! Can't wait for the next one!

[Meredith Sinclair]

I started reading the forums this morning, because I find them a source of many good reads.  Books that I would not ordinarily find on my own.  And, often, at a bargain price.  But this morning I found something very strange.  A book that I had recently purchased, after having read about it here, has been pulled off Kindle by the author.  I guess that is the right of the author... but what about the rights of paying customers?  What rights do we have?

I paid money for this Kindle book.  It is still on my Kindle, waiting patiently to be read.  I don't want my money back.  I want what I paid for... is that too much to ask of an author?  

Part of the Kindle experience is that the book can be reloaded onto my Kindle at any time.  The copy on Amazon acts as a back-up.  I have owned my Kindle for about a month, and already I have had to reload it from scratch from Amazon, after my Kindle bricked.

So I am a confused reader.  Anyone want to help me understand WTF is going on?

WoW! If it is the person I have been reading about I did not realize he pulled the book off of Kindle. What good does that do? He only hurts himself, I mean I... , I even had already saved the website to my faves so I could check him out later. I just became a member and am trying to add new authors to my original favorite five. Those five are not inide authors, so I figure if I get five indie authors, read their owrk and "chat" with them before they become one of the big guys .... So anyway he was one of the interesting ones, now I just wonder where will he go from here? ANyone know?  

Edit: Just noticed you are talking about s*x scenes, so did he pull it off because of that? I did not know any rules about that applied on here are there rules about love scenes on KIndle.... I may have to find another place to shop

[Steph H]

A KB member posted a rather...harsh...mini-review of a book because of its content, the author didn't take it too well and in a snit, she decided to pull her book out of the Kindle store. That's it in a nutshell.

As far as I know, we don't have any rules against posting stuff with graphic content (i.e., that we can't do it), but if the Amazon description includes one of those "warning, contains graphic content" things in it, it's considered good form to include that warning when you post a book. That way if someone has a kid nearby, they can know not to click on the link.  And also to spoilerize the description language if it needs to be (use your best judgment).

[Ann in Arlington]

A KB member posted a rather...harsh...mini-review of a book because of its content, the author didn't take it too well and in a snit, she decided to pull her book out of the Kindle store. That's it in a nutshell.

I wouldn't have said 'harsh'.  I thought the 3 star review was honest and even had positive points.  The reviewer did note what she did not like and even noted that her rating was because of that.  Really, it was an extremely helpful review.

I do agree with 'in a snit' because I think it was just silly to pull the book because of it. I do not know if the member/author in question still hangs out here.

Again, my opinion ONLY.

And, yes, if a book you're recommending is not suitable for Harvey's 11 year old daughters please note that in the description and use the spoiler block so 'adult' words won't accidentally jump out at anyone. 

[mamiller]

Oh dear.   I have 'scenes' in my books.  It comes with the genre, I reckon. 
I do have a clause with Amazon that if my Mother tries to download the book, she's blocked. 

I wouldn't have considered three stars a bad review...   1 star is a bad review...I'll take anything over that 

[Chad Winters]

Just so you guys know.....when I write my magnum opus:  anything less than a glowing 5 star "I bought my BFF a case of beer to write this" type review and I'm taking my ball and going home!!

[Meredith Sinclair]

A KB member posted a rather...harsh...mini-review of a book because of its content, the author didn't take it too well and in a snit, she decided to pull her book out of the Kindle store. That's it in a nutshell.

As far as I know, we don't have any rules against posting stuff with graphic content (i.e., that we can't do it), but if the Amazon description includes one of those "warning, contains graphic content" things in it, it's considered good form to include that warning when you post a book. That way if someone has a kid nearby, they can know not to click on the link.  And also to spoilerize the description language if it needs to be (use your best judgment).

Oooooooh, Hmmmmmmmmm.... well I must be thinking of someone else on here, cause I saw them with posts on here and new threads complaining, changing their name and juvenile stuff like that, then.... continue to post even though they said they were leaving.... Sounds kinda the same thing though, I know reviews have to be hard on the writer, but 3 stars.... sounds like a B- to me!

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Oooooooh, Hmmmmmmmmm.... well I must be thinking of someone else on here, cause I saw them with posts on here and new threads complaining, changing their name and juvenile stuff like that, then.... continue to post even though they said they were leaving.... Sounds kinda the same thing though, I know reviews have to be hard on the writer, but 3 stars.... sounds like a B- to me!

Same person. 

Five star reviews are great, but there's nothing wrong with a four or even three star review.  A three star review means the book was good, just not spectacular in the reviewers opinion.  When you have all five star reviews, readers tend to think they were written by friends and family.

Three and four star reviews that include what the reviewer did and did not like in the book, can be very helpful to the author, as well as the buying public.  If someone says the book contains too many love scenes, someone else might say, "WooHoo, just what I like.  I'm one-clicking this baby right now."

[Meredith Sinclair]

Same person. 

Three and four star reviews that include what the reviewer did and did not like in the book, can be very helpful to the author, as well as the buying public.  If someone says the book contains too many love scenes, someone else might say, "WooHoo, just what I like.  I'm one-clicking this baby right now."

Hmmmmmm.... weeeelllll I reviewed someone's book and had no idea! Darn! How are we supposed to know? Dang It I did it before I knew about kindle.... the book was not even on Kindle then... I guess you live and learn. So from this day forward folks when I review your books (got quite a few these past few weeks) I will give it a review with more details in it. Not like a commercial for it...oh well, its been a while anyway no biggie.

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

Hmmmmmm.... weeeelllll I reviewed someone's book and had no idea! Darn! How are we supposed to know? Dang It I did it before I knew about kindle.... the book was not even on Kindle then... I guess you live and learn. So from this day forward folks when I review your books (got quite a few these past few weeks) I will give it a review with more details in it. Not like a commercial for it...oh well, its been a while anyway no biggie.

That's just my opinion, Meredith.  I don't want you to feel you violated any "Rules for Reviewers."    

[Meredith Sinclair]

That's just my opinion, Meredith.  I don't want you to feel you violated any "Rules for Reviewers."    

K.....cause that just shot my day to h*ck. I started out with sunny with 10% chance of rain and now.... I feel all cloudy I promise to do better... I promise to do better... I gotta hurry and finish this book so I can write a review now!

[Steph H]

Same person. 

It's a different author.  The member involved may be the same, I can't personally remember.  But the author is different.

[pidgeon92]

The author who pulled the book was indeed a different author than the one who was leaving due to the forum changes.... The first author was a woman, and I still had a sample of her book on my Kindle after she got upset over the 3-star review.... Based on the sample I read, I wouldn't have given it 5-stars either. Or 3.