Advertising: does it work? Any success stories?

[Harmonious]

Hi,

I'm wondering about stepping into the small ads arena. Has anybody got any recommendations on how to go about this? It's for a commercial fiction novel. I've heard good things about Good Reads ads but is it very costly?

Thanks.

Stephanie

[JonnyAndrews]

Hi,

I'm wondering about stepping into the small ads arena. Has anybody got any recommendations on how to go about this? It's for a commercial fiction novel. I've heard good things about Good Reads ads but is it very costly?

Thanks.

Stephanie

I'll totally take this one

Fast heads up before I go off... I've been called "heavy handed" when it
comes to dispensing marketing/advertising advice so be aware!

But IF your goal is to run effective ads AND not lose your
shirt on the costs what I'm telling you is actually advice you
want to follow.  

Before you drop even your first red cent on any form of advertising
at all you really need to decide a few things

#1: Who is your ideal audience (and no, it's NOT "everyone")
- Sex
- Age range
- Geographic location (Try trends.google.com)
- Reading preference
- What books do they buy now?

#2: Where do these people spend the majority of their time online?
- What blogs are they reading?
- What sites to they like?
- What keywords are they typing in

Obviously the initial answer is FaceBook as FB has turned almost every person
in the computerized world into a cyberstalker.

I'm guessing by the question you asked you haven't yet tried advertising.

DO NOT USE GOOGLE TO START!!!!!

Please.

If you're new I don't care how many $100 free vouchers you get
because that money + extra will vanish before your eyes in no time.

You really should become good at 1 area before you branch out.

In my opinion and experience the fastest place to learn how to
advertise as well as the most cost effective is FaceBook.

Here's how to do it:

#1: Find the other pages your audience hangs out on.
- Author pages
- Book pages
- Movies with the same topic
- Celebrities

Make a list

#2: Create a "FanPage" for your book and another for you name
- Look for the "Advertising" link at the bottom of the screen

#3: Once you have a page up post some content
- 3-5 posts + a few cool photos

#4: After you post stuff create "micro" ads
- Run these ads to your fan page and ONLY target fans
of other pages in your niche (see the list  you made above)
- Create a different ad for each age range
   Example: Females ages 21-34 who like XXXXX page
- DO NOT target more than 6-10K people per ad
- Run your ads on a CPM basis (Cost per thousand)
- Bid only $.05 higher than the minimum suggested bid
- Set an "end date" on your ad to be no more than 5 days

#5: Once approved let your ads run until you get 3000 impressions each
- If your CTR (click through rate) is under .05% KILL THE AD!****

#6: Keep making more and more ad groups
- Test different pictures
- Test different ad copy
- Test different demographics
- Kill what's not working and keep what is

End Game: Doing it this way you'll find out for (in most cases) under
$2 which ads are going to work and which won't.  In almost any other
advertising arena you'll have to blow through THOUSANDS of dollars
before you have that sort of data

Then... once you've found your markets "sweet spot" you take
that info and roll it out into the next advertising location.

Test/tweak/optimize until you are crushing it.

Keep doing this for 1 location at a time until you have more
buyers than you know what to do with

Hope that helps!

Jonny

**** Fast edit: you want to kill the ad if you're spending more per
fan or per click than about $.10.  Personally I'd suggest setting your
floor at around $.07 per fan but it's totally your call.

So based on that the actual CTR has to be open to your end goal

[Dante Kleinberg]

Holy cow that is some ADVICE right there.  Impressive!

For some reason I don't feel like I am actually capable of doing all that, but I think I'll have to bookmark this for more consideration when I have the time to investigate it seriously.

[Harmonious]

Wow, this is FANTASTIC, Jonny. Thanks so much.  

((Well, yes, I did try Google Ads once - with a free voucher so at least it didn't cost anything - but it only ended up confusing me more...))

[JonnyAndrews]

Holy cow that is some ADVICE right there.  Impressive!

For some reason I don't feel like I am actually capable of doing all that, but I think I'll have to bookmark this for more consideration when I have the time to investigate it seriously.

Thanks! 

It's actually not all that hard to do.  The only difficulty is taking that first
step to get your feet wet.

Once you're in it gets easy and fast.

You can really discover a lot about your real audience in just a few days
and for just a handful of dollars by doing it this way.

The over SUPER advantage to getting good at using FaceBook is
the small fact just shy of 90% of the industrial worlds population is
on there and spending roughly 20 min per day checking to see what
their exes are doing

Above all the other resources you can tap into this is by far the
most potentially beneficial and best one to become a ninja.

Any author with a legitimate audience, I truly believe, can become
HUGE success by using just this single resource along with a well built
wordpress based blog.

[JonnyAndrews]

Wow, this is FANTASTIC, Jonny. Thanks so much.  

((Well, yes, I did try Google Ads once - with a free voucher so at least it didn't cost anything - but it only ended up confusing me more...))

I hear ya!

Adwords just isn't the happy place it was about 5 years ago.

There are so many unpublished rules and Google is constantly
changing them. 

What I do now is let other people fight through that.

Sneaky Tip:

#1: use the Google External Keyword tool (google it)
to find the top keywords your audience is searching.

#2: Then go out and make a spreadsheet of all top 10 sites under
each keyword (you may want to outsource this

#3: Then contact the site owners and see if you can either
- Guest post
- Get a book review
- Do an interview

#4: When they say "yes" do one of those things and basically
"Steal" their Google traffic!

Note: You'll want to always have a "bio box" at the end of whatever
content you get out there.  This will have 2-3 sentences about you
as well as a link back to your site

On your site make sure you have a way to capture emails for your
news letter along with a strong call to action for them to join

This is a fantastic way to break into a market for zero cost and get
TONS of traffic to your site and then consequently boost your book sales

Say it with me: Muwahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha... cough

[Harmonious]

More thanks and cutting and pasting for offline study!

CUTEst baby!

[mrv01d]

This is a great thread. Jonny, you should write an e-article and sell it--your information is that valuable.

M

[LKWatts]

These are some fantastic tips! 

[JonnyAndrews]

This is a great thread. Jonny, you should write an e-article and sell it--your information is that valuable.

M

Thank you!

LOL I'm already way ahead of you on that.  What do you think
I do for a living?

Got into online marketing originally to help fund my band
back in the day.  Then I left my band because they were
IDIOTS when it came to the most vital aspect of success
which is running your art as a business!

I've been very blessed in my life to have been able to
develop and leverage massive success from doing the
stuff I'm posting in here.

As of 3 months ago I made the decision to stop working
only in the online marketing space and get back to my
artistic roots.

I guess posting this stuff is an okay way of giving back.

So thank you for the compliment.  I really hope my info
can help save you some time, money and effort!

[Carly Carson]

Thanks for the info, Jonny. It's precise and seems logical. Much better than simply throwing money around and hoping some of it does something.

[JonnyAndrews]

Thanks for the info, Jonny. It's precise and seems logical. Much better than simply throwing money around and hoping some of it does something.

No sweat! 

Yea, I'd like to think it's better than the good 'ol "fling and pray" method

Done quite a bit of that myself back in the day.

It really pays off to get focused with your efforts and apply that
focus in 1 spot until you master it. 

Having been one of the people who used to say "advertising doesn't work for me"
I can honestly tell you that isn't the case.

Just about everything works IF you do it right!

When I used to speak about this stuff to groups of business owners
I'd always lead with the question: "Would you change a tire with
a cantaloupe?"

That's what every person who says ads don't work is doing. 

Ads work.  You just have to use the right tool at the right time
in the right place in the right way to get the right result.

[Harmonious]

I've started my research & it's all making sense so far 

[JonnyAndrews]

I've started my research & it's all making sense so far 

Gooooooood!

[KateDanley]

Fantastic thread!  Yes!  To everything said above!  I've done Google Ads and Facebook.  For me, Google would randomly exceed my "Do Not Exceed This Dollar Threshold" by a buck or two every day because of some fine print loophole.  It doesn't seem like much, but it adds up.  I would receive a lot of click throughs, but not a whole lot of sales.  I had some mixed success with Facebook.  I received more sales, but it never really added up enough to justify the cost.

What I found to be a better investment were ads and giveaways on book related sites and blogs - hitting people who were actually looking for things to read, not just reading an email their Aunt Mildred sent about a Snow White costume at the grocery store...which caused Gmail to pull up my ad because "Snow White" is one of my keywords.  Goodreads ads and giveaways gave me a boost, plus, because Goodreads allows readers to manage their book lists, it was an easy way for people to save my book to a wishlist that they can reference down the road.  Ads in literary magazines and newletters also gave me a boost (Kindle Nation Daily did amazing things for me). 

Hope this helps! 

[Dara England]

LOL I'm already way ahead of you on that.  What do you think
I do for a living?

Ever though of putting out an ebook on marketing? You totally could.

[JonnyAndrews]

Ever though of putting out an ebook on marketing? You totally could.

Yup.  Already sold over 30,000 copies on my own of them.

I do AND sell this stuff since 2007

Even take on private clients from time to time

[Doctor Barbara]

Greetings.  Good topic going on here.  In general, I have found I pay more for advertising than what I get in return.  As a matter or fact, the higher the cost of the advertisement, the more I loose. When sales are up, it seems to correlate with word of mouth, forums, tagging, etc. 

[Phoenix Sullivan]

I'm trying FB out this weekend and maybe next, depending on how this long holiday weekend goes. I'm targeting folk who are uber-excited about the new "Contagion" movie releasing next weekend. It's a good fit for SECTOR C (other than one's a movie and the other's a book ). And it's a really good chance for some tightly focused target marketing over a limited time. I chose folk interested in the movie "Contagion," Robin Cook and Michael Crichton. In all, a target market of 158,000. I only allocated a small budget, though - about 8000 impressions total of that potential audience. I'll report back mid-week.

[David Wisehart]

Yup.  Already sold over 30,000 copies on my own of them.

If you have an ebook about this, where can we buy it?

David

[JonnyAndrews]

I'm trying FB out this weekend and maybe next, depending on how this long holiday weekend goes. I'm targeting folk who are uber-excited about the new "Contagion" movie releasing next weekend. It's a good fit for SECTOR C (other than one's a movie and the other's a book ). And it's a really good chance for some tightly focused target marketing over a limited time. I chose folk interested in the movie "Contagion," Robin Cook and Michael Crichton. In all, a target market of 158,000. I only allocated a small budget, though - about 8000 impressions total of that potential audience. I'll report back mid-week.

DM me your ad copy and plan before you hit that.

You have the EXACT right idea but it can go sideways
if you're not careful

But 8K impressions should be less than $5! 

You'll know in under 3K impressions if the thing is
working for you

[JonnyAndrews]

If you have an ebook about this, where can we buy it?

David

Alas.  I don't sell the ebooks anymore.  I take private clients
and whatnot.  Mostly larger corps.

Do crazy marketing stuff for them. 

Got out of selling "make money online" info products to consumers
about 18 months ago.

But it's funny you should ask that... had a crew of old friends
from back when I was in the market call up today to see if
they could get me back in the game!

Nah.  Got a kid now. Can't be on the road 3 months at a time
any more like that.

But those were the good old days... when I was rolling like a drunken
monkey on a tilt-a-whirl! 

Hmmmm... maybe I'll go have a shot for old times sake

[B Regan Asher]

Very interesting thread.  I was actually fine with Google ads for the last couple months (considering it was almost July by the time I published the books and started advertising) but the last couple weeks have stalled.  Perhaps it's just slow around labor day but I think I am now going to look at the Facebook approach.  Sounds a little complicated but I'll probably give it a good shot.

Thanks everyone for such generous advice!

B

[JRTomlin]

Yup.  Already sold over 30,000 copies on my own of them.

I do AND sell this stuff since 2007

Even take on private clients from time to time

Ah. That explains a lot, doesn't it?

To return to the topic which the OP asked about: GoodReads.

Yes, some of us have and do use Goodreads. No, they are not expensive to use. My experience with it has been mixed. I have increased my sales of one of my historical novels quite a  bit although not to the point of being a best seller through using a Goodreads ad. The ad I've been running for one of my fantasies has not worked as well. Because it doesn't have nearly as many reviews? Possibly.

Goodreads is a PPC system and you can do some pretty narrow targeting, also it has the advantage that you are solely advertising to people who read and buy books, unlike Facebook. Gemini Sasson, who has historical novels consistently on the Amazon best seller list, has mentioned in another thread that she also uses Goodreads ads.
 

[JonnyAndrews]

Ah. That explains a lot, doesn't it?

To return to the topic which the OP asked about: GoodReads.

Yes, some of us have and do use Goodreads. No, they are not expensive to use. My experience with it has been mixed. I have increased my sales of one of my historical novels quite a  bit although not to the point of being a best seller through using a Goodreads ad. The ad I've been running for one of my fantasies has not worked as well. Because it doesn't have nearly as many reviews? Possibly.

Goodreads is a PPC system and you can do some pretty narrow targeting, also it has the advantage that you are solely advertising to people who read and buy books, unlike Facebook. Gemini Sasson, who has historical novels consistently on the Amazon best seller list, has mentioned in another thread that she also uses Goodreads ads.
 

Indeed!

I'm also messing around with Goodreads now.  Thus far testing
is just so/so.   

Obviously their system is very new so the targeting is clunk, but
with enough tweaking/testing it should be able to yield good results.

After all... it's a place about books loaded with people who like to
read!  They should be in the mood to buy something at some point!

Just a matter of getting the right offer in front of them.

Do you have any best practices in place for that venue?