New Folders Rumor on eve of DX release ! From "the other side"

[suicidepact]

Has Amazon released big o.s. updates via firmware patches ever? I'm new so I'm curious. I don't know if there have ever been any significant updates to any Kindle o.s. that has been rolled out this way, or so have the updates really been just minor stuff?

The passion Trekker feels about paying for a (theoretical) upgrade is understandable IMHO, as I own an iPod Touch and after being told I would have to pay for an upgrade that iPhone users didn't for the second time, I stopped paying for upgrades. Now I also have a Blackberry Storm.

[Susan in VA]

I would not pay them a nickel for something that should have already been included. The price of the Kindle isn't cheap and should have folders already included, especially when Amazon uses the 1500 book capability as a selling point.

Amazon is a multi-billion dollar company and to suggest they charge us additional fees for their lack of foresight (or common sense) conjures up images of burning someone (at amazon) at the stake, at least in my mind.  

Oh, I agree with you that it should have been included!   But since it wasn't, if the choice were either
a) they do nothing about it until version 19 of the Kindle, or
b) they develop folders and then offer us a software upgrade at some not-too-greedy price,
I'd definitely prefer choice (b), and I suspect quite a few Kindlers would.

Now, all this may be unfair  --  I don't know anything about how the Kindle's software is structured, and so it may just not be technically possible to add that feature at this point.  Granted that they should have thought about the issue during development, but that's another matter....

[koolmnbv]

Oh, I agree with you that it should have been included!   But since it wasn't, if the choice were either
a) they do nothing about it until version 19 of the Kindle, or
b) they develop folders and then offer us a software upgrade at some not-too-greedy price,
I'd definitely prefer choice (b), and I suspect quite a few Kindlers would.

Now, all this may be unfair  --  I don't know anything about how the Kindle's software is structured, and so it may just not be technically possible to add that feature at this point.  Granted that they should have thought about the issue during development, but that's another matter....

I would also gladly take option B!

I don't know anything about the software either but it seems highly unlikely that folders just CAN'T be currently done, I refuse to believe it!

I will cling to all shreds of hope and optimism! 

[artsandhistoryfan]

If they offered folders (under whatever name) as an upgrade, and charged for the upgrade like any other computer software, I'm sure many of us would be willing to pay for that convenience.

  Amazon doesn't seem very into conditionally-based firmware updates or processes.

  They'd have to do a different firmware update or have a flag in an update that allows it to be used only when the person has paid for a certain feature, leading to all kinds of conditional programming within the update and lots of possible bugs.

   Personally, I wouldn't pay for an update that should be part of an e-reader's basic function... but that's just me.

   It becomes a trend-setter for the vendor and I don't want that.

   And when you realize that DX owners have paid $489 for the unit, $50 for the Amazon cover, and possibly $109 for the 2-yr warranty (1-yr extended), for a total of $648, paying for updates won't be high or a positive thought on owners' minds.  They should hope we have the units, enjoy them, and will keep buying books.

   For the warranty, by the way, the cost is so high and the breakage so easy where glass is involved, I imagine people will buy it or the squaretrade.com offering.  Has anyone found out how much the latter would be for a $489 item?


  
  

  

[koolmnbv]

 It becomes a trend-setter for the vendor and I don't want that.

   And when you realize that DX owners have paid $489 for the unit, $50 for the Amazon cover, and possibly $109 for the 2-yr warranty (1-yr extended), for a total of $648, paying for updates won't be high or a positive thought on owners' minds.  They should hope we have the units, enjoy them, and will keep buying books.

 

This is true, and something I hadn't considered. If they charged us for folder upgrades what is to stop them from charging for each and every other upgrade. Amazon could just figure if we REALLY WANT it THAT BAD then we can pay for it!

I can't imagine owning a dx with so much storage and memory and using it for textbooks etc. with no folders or organization method available!

[WaltC]

I would not pay them a nickel for something that should have already been included.

I very much agree.  Folders (or tags, grouping, whatever) is a basic capability that should have been there from day 1.  For that reason, I'm totally convinced that eventually Amazon will offer the capability (yesterday, wouldn't be too soon) since their competitors will take advantage of the feature gap if Amazon doesn't plug it first.  The only question in my mind is whether Amazon is going to be a leader in this, or a follower.  Folders (etc.) are such a critical, basic capability-- like buying a car and finding out that it doesn't come with car seats-- that one has to ask, if they can't deliver that then how are they going to keep up with the next 10 hot ebook-reader features that come along later.

From my POV, Amazon offers only one key advantage over the other ebook-reader suppliers-- a large portfolio of current ebook material.  (I like whispernet, but I'd be 99% as happy with WIFI.)  That's a pretty thin competitive lead to be counting on when you're carrying around a feature gap vs. the competition.  (By feature gap, I'm not just referring to folders (etc.), but also things like native PDF support, including PDF reflow handling like the Sony reader has.)

[webhill]

Man, those people are mean over there!

I know none of you will flame me for asking this because you are all so nice, but I've never understood the need for folders.  Could someone explain to me how we would use them?

I don't know how you would use them
I know how I would use them!

1. to separate personal files from actual books. I keep non-amazon content on my K2 for ease of use (I don't want to delete it and then need it when I'm away from my computer and can't easily re-transfer it via USB!), but that's several pages of books, work-related files, journal articles and such right there clogging up my screen.

2. to separate by genre or purpose. I am typically reading two "bedtime for kids" books (at least - sometimes three) to my kids at once, and then I have my own in-progress novel and my own in-progress non-fiction and my own book-club book, let's say. I'd like to be able to put everything that's "in progress" into a folder.

3. pursuant to number 2, if I am going to a book club meeting, I may have 8-10 samples on my K2 which are there for the purpose of sharing with the club to discuss what our next book will be. I would like to have those grouped separately. In fact, I would love a special "sample" folder or category to keep samples from cluttering up the home screen in general. I do like to keep a lot (maybe 30) of samples on the K2 so I always have something to browse in a pinch, as well as having something to choose from when it's time to pick my next read.

4. to group books in a series together. I have a lot of series I'm reading on my K2, ranging from three to 10 books per! I wish I could keep them in their own separate folders. It is hard sometimes to keep track of books in a series if they are titled along the lines of "Apple," "Pear," and "Grapes," as opposed to "Fruit One," "Fruit Two," and "Fruit Three," *especially* if the series' author has also written books which are *not* in the series - for example, "Pomegranate" as opposed to "Standalone Book by Fruitloving Author." See what I mean? If I could put Apple, Pear, and Grapes into a folder, I wouldn't have such a hard time when I finished Apple trying to figure out what book is next.

[ProfCrash]

I would love to keep more books on my Kindle but without a way to sort them it is too cumbersom. I would love to have:

Folders for genres (Sci Fi, Fantasy, Fiction, Biographies, Non-Fiction, Romance)
A folder for books I really want to read. I would like to keep my top 5-10 books in there.
A folder for personal documents
A folder for Non-Amazon books that I have completed

[Abouna]

Nothing really to add, just thought I'd chime in and say YES I want folders!  My main use would be to separate my books from my personal items (I am using the K2 for church services which is very handy!).

[jazzi]

I hope to create a reference library comprised of PDF files on my DX.  In a perfect world, most of the files would be contained in possibly a dozen subject areas.  Folders, for my purposes, would be fantastic!

[Varin]

I want a folder for series! I have several and ugh, they're all over the place!

[Rasputina]

So basically this rumor has been shot down now.

[DD]

I don't know how you would use them
I know how I would use them!

1. to separate personal files from actual books. I keep non-amazon content on my K2 for ease of use (I don't want to delete it and then need it when I'm away from my computer and can't easily re-transfer it via USB!), but that's several pages of books, work-related files, journal articles and such right there clogging up my screen.

2. to separate by genre or purpose. I am typically reading two "bedtime for kids" books (at least - sometimes three) to my kids at once, and then I have my own in-progress novel and my own in-progress non-fiction and my own book-club book, let's say. I'd like to be able to put everything that's "in progress" into a folder.

3. pursuant to number 2, if I am going to a book club meeting, I may have 8-10 samples on my K2 which are there for the purpose of sharing with the club to discuss what our next book will be. I would like to have those grouped separately. In fact, I would love a special "sample" folder or category to keep samples from cluttering up the home screen in general. I do like to keep a lot (maybe 30) of samples on the K2 so I always have something to browse in a pinch, as well as having something to choose from when it's time to pick my next read.

4. to group books in a series together. I have a lot of series I'm reading on my K2, ranging from three to 10 books per! I wish I could keep them in their own separate folders. It is hard sometimes to keep track of books in a series if they are titled along the lines of "Apple," "Pear," and "Grapes," as opposed to "Fruit One," "Fruit Two," and "Fruit Three," *especially* if the series' author has also written books which are *not* in the series - for example, "Pomegranate" as opposed to "Standalone Book by Fruitloving Author." See what I mean? If I could put Apple, Pear, and Grapes into a folder, I wouldn't have such a hard time when I finished Apple trying to figure out what book is next.

Very good analysis of folders!  You've got me thinking.  I could see some of those uses, especially the series thing.

[akpak]

I think more than folders I'd want tags. Tags would likely be easier to implement (since there's already support for some metadata in the documents, ie bookmarks, notes, clippings), and would allow you to organize things even better.

For instance, when reading a series, you could tag a book "[Series Name] 1", and also "Read" or "To be read". If you had folders, you could only put a book into once "category", ie you put a book in a "Read" folder, you wouldn't ALSO be able to drop that same book into the "[Series Name]" folder.

That's why I say TAGS! Not folders!

[Rhiathame]

I also would like folders to be able to put books that are in a series in one folder. I would also like to be able to put books that I have finished but are not from Amazon (such as my books from Baen) into them. I would love to put samples in a folder and have a folder for books that I started but just couldn't finish but I don't want to put in archive yet. I have 20 or so pages of books and it would be nice to organize them.

[kevin63]

Man, those people are mean over there!

I know none of you will flame me for asking this because you are all so nice, but I've never understood the need for folders.  Could someone explain to me how we would use them?

I never keep all my books on the Kindle and with the K2 having the archive feature, all my Amazon books are a click away if I want to move them over to the Kindle memory.  Books from other sources are stored on my computer and I transfer them over via USB a few at a time when I need them.  I never have more than 3 pages in my Home pages.

I also have my Amazon books backed up on my computer by author's last name.  I rename all the .azw files according to this model:  Last name, First name_Title.azw.  Everything is perfectly organized and at my fingertips.

I'm not saying Amazon shouldn't provide folders.  I just need an explanation of how they would benefit us.  Do those of you who want folders keep all the ebooks you own on the Kindle at all times?

Just askin'...

I'm going to have to try that achieve thing.  This isn't the first time I've heard this, I just never paid attention before.  Mine is way too cluttered with books and samples.

[Forster]

I think more than folders I'd want tags. Tags would likely be easier to implement (since there's already support for some metadata in the documents, ie bookmarks, notes, clippings), and would allow you to organize things even better.

For instance, when reading a series, you could tag a book "[Series Name] 1", and also "Read" or "To be read". If you had folders, you could only put a book into once "category", ie you put a book in a "Read" folder, you wouldn't ALSO be able to drop that same book into the "[Series Name]" folder.

That's why I say TAGS! Not folders!

I agree 100%.

[poo]

i got my toe's crossed lol!

[L.Canton]

I would definitely be thrilled to see folders added, and I think most everyone else would agree with that sentiment. I'm sure they could add it in via a software update, it's just a matter of making it practical.

[Rasputina]

I vote someone jailbreak the Kindle and give us folders, tags and that slick TTS program with the different accents.


anyone?

[koolmnbv]

I vote someone jailbreak the Kindle and give us folders, tags and that slick TTS program with the different accents.


anyone?

I'm with you on this! Now I would love to be the volunteer. Except for the fact that it took me a good long while to use the screen saver hack and that was with step-by-step instructions. But I am still hoping someone else (someone much smarter than me) comes up with something.

I'm also still keeping the faith that Amazon will maybe hook us up 1 of these days.

[kevindorsey]

Folders would be sweet.  They should release a patch with this update for all Kindles, and not be greedy

[suicidepact]

 Interesting thought on jailbreaking the Kindle. I have no experience coding, nor the time to learn, but I would still like to know how. If I were to upgrade to a DX, I would even volunteer to 'guinea pig' a Kindle for the cause. But I'm there right now.

[sjc]

to quote cs:

Would suck if K1 users are left out in the cold when there's no reason we should be.

That's for sure.  I kept my K1 because K2 didn't have folders!!  
                      (Plus I like the removable battery and SD card slot)

[suicidepact]

Well, it's officially the eve of the release of the Kindle, is it not? Any news on the folders? Or are there are firmware updates? I'm in the U.K. right now so no WhisperNet to check just to make sure. Not as if I really expect there to be one, I'm just curious.