explanation

[Tanner Artesz]

When the book bazaar was announced, I liked the idea. A space was given to the overzealous authors to post their wares without overrunning the book discussion theads. To compensate, the Bargain Books and Free Books forums were placed in the bazaar area as well.

Several days ago, I posted a thread announcing the release of my new book below down with all the other author stuff. It remained visible on page 1 of the forum for almost a whole day. During that time I, two copies of my book were purchased. Rather than be pushy and obnoxious, bumping my announcement to the first page again, I posted in the bargain books thread that my book was available at a nice bargain price. It lasted there about four hours and five more copies of my book were purchased.

My one post seems to have been offensive though, since I received an email stating that as an author, I cannot post that my book is on sale in that thread. That thread is reserved for 'members.' I find this treatment degrading and insulting. I have never been pushy and overbearing. When my first book was on sale, I posted about it once in the Bargain books thread. The sale lasted through two months, but someone else posted it in the second month, so I refrained. I see no need to be redundant.

If this is the policy of Kindle Boards, you might as well take the Bargain/Free books threads back to Book Corner. You are doing nothing but insulting the authors that are 'members' by treating them this way. I would understand this treatment if someone were to make multiple posts there. I don't understand it at all for someone who makes one post.

I have removed all mention of my book and my name, though some will know who I am as this is not a promotion to sell my book. I am stating my grievance so that those who were wondering what has upset me know. Maybe, the moderators will see this and change that 'members only' rule and eliminate the problem.

A member of the sub-member species.

[hackeynut]

As a non author member, I understand where you are coming from, but I would respectfully disagree with you.  I don't want to speak too far out of turn here, so if a mod wants to delete this, go for it.

Reading the Free and Bargain threads was often frustrating due to the shear number of independant authors in the thread.  This isn't necessarily directed towards you as I'm not even sure who you are.  But it did get frustrating when month after month the same 30 books would pop up in the thread several times.  Especially when I had personally purchased them several months previous.  Of course there are always new members and readers coming in and every author should have a chance to get them as buyers.

Authors are allowed what amounts to free advertising here.  I guess KB gets a teeny tiny cut of any book one clicked from the boards, but they are offering a free advertising service for indie authors.  Personally I think that is great, I love reading new authors and finding out about books I never would have stumbed across otherwise.  But it comes down to good and bad actors.

To try and thread the needle, they left the Bargain thread for books that were found by members and the rest of the book bazaar (and the Authors on KB) thread for authors looking to advertise.

I can understand you are frustrated that your post was deleted.  But lets face it, they could easily charge authors to put ads on this site.  They don't.  By throwing a hissyfit, all you are doing is ensuring that you don't sell any more books to KB members.  That seems pretty counterintuitive with the shear number of voracious readers that inhabit this site.  I would hope you reconsider.

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

Sub-member Species,

I think I have a good guess as to who you are, but in fairness to you and your work, I won't dare to mention your name here. But I would like to express my thoughts. I think you may have misunderstood the problem or the reason why Kindle Boards has enacted this policy. The problem, if there really is a problem, is not about how many times you have posted a message about your book. The problem is the sheer number of authors who are now Kindle Board members (most of whom arrived in the last 3 months). It is true that your one post in the Bargain Books section isn't really that much of an eyesore. But what would happen if every author who frequents Kindle Boards posts one message about their books in The Bargain Books section? What would really be unfair is if the moderators here on Kindle Boards allowed you to post messages about your book in the Bargain Books thread and not allowed the other authors to do the same. In fact, I, too, have had one of my posts about my book removed from The Bargain Books thread. But when I learned that there were new rules that prohibited this behavior, I quickly (and happily) amended my ways.

Here's where the problem lies: a couple of months ago, Kindle Boards was swamped with the arrival of several new members who were authors. When those authors, many of whom have written a number of books, created threads to promote their books in The Book Corner, it overwhelmed the forum and the veteran Kindle Boards members were annoyed that they couldn't find regular discussion threads, because they were buried under a sea of self-promotion threads. What was Kindle Boards supposed to do? The Bargain Books section was not unaffected as well. Before we authors began touting our books, it was much easier for Kindle Board members to discover new bargain books. But it had since become the place where the same books were being touted month after month. Again, what was Kindle Boards supposed to do? Since Kindle Boards is a place where Kindle owners (readers and authors) can mingle, rules had to be put into place to keep everyone happy.

Remember, Kindle Boards has always been a site dedicated to fostering discussion about Amazon's Kindle and the books that Kindle owners read. It was never created with the intent of being a site where authors could tote their wares. Even so, the moderators here on Kindle Boards have been kind enough to realize that authors are readers too and have allowed us the opportunity to showcase our works to fellow members. I understand your gripe, and even I considered the ramifications (and unintended ghettoization of Kindle Board members who are authors) by not allowing them to mention their books in certain threads. But understand, the moderators are not saying that you cannot participate in The Bargain Books thread. They are simply saying that if you want to mention your own book you need to do it on your own book thread. In my opinion, it's a fair and reasonable request. Especially considering that we authors are guests on this site and should treat our hosts with the same respect that we would like afforded to us in return.

I think the process works. Unlike Amazon which is not author-friendly, Kindle Boards has tried to strike an even-handed balance between the needs of all of its members, not just one group with particular needs. As you know from my recent history, I understand very well the need to obey the rules.  
 

[Meredith Sinclair]

Not that I am an author... and I did notice that you had a "good-bye" and felt bad for you because I did not know exactly what was going on. But just like all things, especially  "FREE"  things, there have to be rules to keep everyone happy and to keep things balanced. I personally would like to give praise to the originators of this board for allowing us readers to be able to discuss books with one another as well as to "talk" to authors and "listen" to them "talk" to one another. I found this board thru another discussion board and am quite pleased to have another outlet to voice my opinions/thoughts with other like-minded people.
 Thanks to you guys/gals who make this possible. And for all of you authors out there.... keep up the good work and bargain prices! Things are so bad with the economy that some of us have to stay at home for "stay-cations" now and what better way to do it than to chill-out, read good books and actually discuss the characters and plots etc. with the people who wrote them!

Hope the OP just thinks about what actually happened and can move forward. This is an excellent place to grab them attention for your books and promote sells. Besides if your book links are on your signature, you can enjoy all of the other threads, and when you post you are in effect getting a "free ad" so to speak. 

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

Well said.

[CS]

The rest of you pretty much hit the nail on the head: the bargain/free threads were getting overrun with author plugs, and they became a chore to wade through. I think giving the authors their own board was a very nice compromise on the part of the KB staff.

I can understand why you'd post your qualms, "sub-member." That part is okay IMO. Free speech and all that. But changing your board name to something silly and trying to be anonymous? Pretty childish, if you ask me.

BTW, you're not even remotely anonymous. A quick search of your posting history tells the tale pretty well.

[Athenagwis]

Well the only thing I agree with here is that the free books and bargain books should not be in the "author's" section if authors aren't allowed to post in them.  I love looking at those two threads and would greatly prefer if they were in the book section since it seems to pertain more to that then author's promotion.  I think it's fair that authors can't self-promote in those, but why have them in the forum where authors promote then?  Wouldn't it make more sense to put those in the book thread and maybe start some stickies here, like "New this month" where authors can list their books that are out this month, or have a sticky for bargains that's ONLY authors posting their sales.  I think that would make a little more sense.  Then the people that get annoyed by author self-promotion can avoid this forum altogether, but still get their free and bargain books, and those that like the indie authors promoting themselves here, can come in here and find all the good deals on them.

JMHO!
Rachel

[CS]

Well the only thing I agree with here is that the free books and bargain books should not be in the "author's" section if authors aren't allowed to post in them.

I see your point, but I think Harvey and the gang did the authors a favor by putting those two heavily visited threads in the author's section. That gives the authors greater visibility and exposure, because people will automatically go to the section for the bargain/free threads. Otherwise, people might avoid the author's section altogether because it'll seem like a place to post "classified ads" (so to speak) and nothing more. The bargain/free threads give the author's section a greater purpose and can only help the authors by driving more traffic to their area of the board. Why knock a gift horse in the mouth? Any author who does so is really shortsighted and completely missing out on the big picture IMO.

[MichaelS]

I see your point, but I think Harvey and the gang did the authors a favor by putting those two heavily visited threads in the author's section. That gives the authors greater visibility and exposure, because people will automatically go to the section for the bargain/free threads. Otherwise, people might avoid the author's section altogether because it'll seem like a place to post "classified ads" (so to speak) and nothing more. The bargain/free threads give the author's section a greater purpose and can only help the authors by driving more traffic to their area of the board. Why knock a gift horse in the mouth? Any author who does so is really shortsighted and completely missing out on the big picture IMO.

YEP!

[Selcien]

I haven't been coming here much so quite a bit has changed but based on what I've read in this thread it would seem to me that whomever chose to use the word "members" chose their word poorly. What I'd suggest doing is approaching the Bargain Books and Free Books threads as a reader, not an author.

I'd also suggest getting over your paranoia about bumping your own thread, there's nothing at all wrong with wanting people to take a look at your books, I mean, that is the whole reason anyone writes, you know, hoping that someone else will read it, just be reasonable with the bumps. Also, the advice of using a sig to promote your books is a very good one. In between judicious bumping of your thread, posting as a reader with a sig promoting your books, you should be able to get a decent amount of promotion from these boards.

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

I haven't been coming here much so quite a bit has changed but based on what I've read in this thread it would seem to me that whomever chose to use the word "members" chose their word poorly. What I'd suggest doing is approaching the Bargain Books and Free Books threads as a reader, not an author.

I'd also suggest getting over your paranoia about bumping your own thread, there's nothing at all wrong with wanting people to take a look at your books, I mean, that is the whole reason anyone writes, you know, hoping that someone else will read it, just be reasonable with the bumps. Also, the advice of using a sig to promote your books is a very good one. In between judicious bumping of your thread, posting as a reader with a sig promoting your books, you should be able to get a decent amount of promotion from these boards.

I don't mean to be flogging a dead horse, but I think that's where the problem lies. I'm not sure I disagree with authors who every now and then choose to bump their book threads up more than once a day. (I think an author does more damage to him or herself by choosing not to reply to post made by KB members simply to maintain the appearance of not overstating their case. I do, however, think it is selfish and greedy to bump your thread up multiple times a day every single day. There are a lot of authors (like the aggrieved one who created this thread) who don't feel comfortable hogging up the forum to themselves. And I not only respect, but applaud these authors for their restraint. Where it gets tricky is when an author has posted a thread for more than one book. Then I think it's especially important to be judicial in your posts. This forum was created to allow a number of voices to be heard. When it becomes the dominion of one single author then it's a real problem.

[Carolyn Kephart]

In between judicious bumping of your thread, posting as a reader with a sig promoting your books, you should be able to get a decent amount of promotion from these boards.

The key word is 'judicious.' Bumptious bumpage riles more than it charms. 'One author, one thread' can't be a rule, but it's worthy as a suggestion.

I hope the promulgator of this discussion returns.

Discreetly,

CK

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

As usual, you are the voice of reason, Carolyn. I cannot agree with you more. The idea that in the end there can only be one would best be served as a movie quote. But selective (or judicious) posting means more to this forum than anything else.

(I agree. I would love to hear the OP's thoughts.)

[Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake']

The key word is 'judicious.' Bumptious bumpage riles more than it charms. 'One author, one thread' can't be a rule, but it's worthy as a suggestion.

I hope the promulgator of this discussion returns.

Discreetly,

CK

Bumptious bumpage?  There speaks a writer who knows how to use words.   

Yes, judicious is the key word.  I don't post in my thread, unless there is news to report.  If someone posts in my thread, I'm certainly going to give them the courtesy of a reply.  That's all I need or want to do. 

[Tanner Artesz]

I stated my frustration, which was the purpose of the original post. I thank all that responded. I will quietly move on and won't bother you nice people again.

Peace

[Edward C. Patterson]

When bargain books came over during the split there were already several author books in it. The rule came mid-month and I was given a heads up not to post any more of my books in that thread. I had already made a self-imposed rule (since all my books are $3.99 or less) that only those reduce to $ .99 were posted there. Then some authors didn;t get the word and took offense when the rule was applied. The moderators told me they were cleaning up the thread. I responded by removing all my books from there, by my own fat fingers, taking a negative post on my ever growing post count. I believe the Bargain book thread should stay in the Bazaar as it is not about book discussion, but about suggested bargain books that members, myself included (I just saw Kevis recommend one), recommend. I also follow the thread rule for my books. Each remain unbumpitty bumpaged for seven days, House rules) unless there is somethings special, a price change or imminent price change or a response needed for another member. The only exception is the poetry thread, which I post a new poem to every Wednesday, like anyone is going to buy that book.   I';m here to share with other members, readers and authors alike. I participate in many activities here now - start new and I hope interesting threads. It's where I should be as a Kindle owner, and avid reader and an author of 22 books, 12 published on the Kindle.

Edward C. Patterson

[Athenagwis]

I see your point, but I think Harvey and the gang did the authors a favor by putting those two heavily visited threads in the author's section. That gives the authors greater visibility and exposure, because people will automatically go to the section for the bargain/free threads. Otherwise, people might avoid the author's section altogether because it'll seem like a place to post "classified ads" (so to speak) and nothing more. The bargain/free threads give the author's section a greater purpose and can only help the authors by driving more traffic to their area of the board. Why knock a gift horse in the mouth? Any author who does so is really shortsighted and completely missing out on the big picture IMO.

Point well taken, but maybe perhaps in addition to these, there could be some author specific stickies too.  A happy compromise I should think.

Rachel

[Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson]

As much as I love having people read my books, I am one of those authors who would much prefer not to have to promote himself via the used car salesman route. In fact, I'd much rather spend my time writing new books than promoting my books in the first place. Unfortunately, I have found that I have very little little success selling books if I don't shamelessly stand up on the podium and say, will you please buy my book? It's only 80 cents...

I have found that as time goes on I spend less time promoting ( I really don't enjoy it very much) and prefer to engage in participating in the discussion threads as a reader (and sometimes author). I don't understand why any author would take offense to a website creating rules to keep the locals in line, especially when that site invites authors to promote their works. To me that makes no sense and is ultimately self-destructive. But I have noticed that many authors have chosen to publish their books and not seek ways to promote them. In my opinion, that is a recipe for disaster and I personally don't expect those authors to have very long careers.

My goal is to write books and get them to the people who wants to read them. If you don't like children's/young adult fantasy books then you probably won't like The Legend of Witch Bane. If you don't like space operatic science fiction adventure books a la Flash Gordon or Star Wars, then you probably won't like Rogue Hunter. With that said, I have a responsibility to both myself and my readers to do what it takes to make my book successful. But there is a line that should never be crossed. And I am always trying to make myself aware of where that line is so that I don't create a situation where readers grow disgusted with me or my peers. If I sell fewer books then so be it. But my goal is to be a career author, not an overnight sensation or one-hit wonder.   

[marianneg]

Point well taken, but maybe perhaps in addition to these, there could be some author specific stickies too.  A happy compromise I should think.

Like this one?  http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,1819.0.html

[Greg Banks]

Seems to me that in this case, the problem is very simple. Peace - Out (whoever it is), violated a rule that was in place when he posted, then completely misconstrued the reason for the rule in the first place. The Bargain and Free threads are not meant for "members" (as we authors are members too). They are meant for people to share books they've discovered, as in "Hey, such and such a book is on sale or available for free!" It is not a place for us authors to promote ourselves, and if you don't bother to recognize that, that is your fault, not a problem with the rules themselves.

[rndballref]

Greg, I agree.  This site provides an opportunity for authors like you (and me) to plug our scribblings without cost.  Those running the site set the rules, and potentially change the rules.  We play, or don't play - it's our choice.  To criticize Kindleboards, for keeping potentially thousands of writers from overrunning these threads, seems unreasonable.  I assume that they are trying to balance the readers' interests of finding books without harrassment and authors' abilities to introduce our stuff.  I'm gratefull, whatever the rules are.

Yale R. Jaffe
author, Advantage Disadvantage

[MAGreen]

As a "member" or "reader" I would like to add that since the authors have been given the Bazaar to promote, I have spent more time reading about their books. Whenever I am looking for something new, I first look for freebies or cheapos, and then I scroll through the author threads to see what's new.

[Athenagwis]

Like this one?  http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,1819.0.html

No, like a freebie/bargain thread for self-promotion only, or a sticky for new books out this month from local authors etc...  I enjoy the bargain/free threads because they are condensed.  So why not have an author-free and an author sponsored one?  Best of both worlds!  But it sounds like I am the only one who feels this way, so no biggie, it doesn't have to happen, just figured it might be nice.

Rachel

[MonaSW]

As a "member" or "reader" I would like to add that since the authors have been given the Bazaar to promote, I have spent more time reading about their books. Whenever I am looking for something new, I first look for freebies or cheapos, and then I scroll through the author threads to see what's new.

I am doing something similar, I run out of books to read, I come here to see what looks interesting. I just finished The Takers and enjoyed it very much and am looking forward to the next book in the series.

[CS]

No, like a freebie/bargain thread for self-promotion only, or a sticky for new books out this month from local authors etc...  I enjoy the bargain/free threads because they are condensed.  So why not have an author-free and an author sponsored one?  Best of both worlds!  But it sounds like I am the only one who feels this way, so no biggie, it doesn't have to happen, just figured it might be nice.

Rachel

I don't see the point of author-sponsored bargain/free threads when:

1) The authors have an entire board section to themselves already.
2) Most KB author books are (thankfully) already bargains to begin with.