students of spanish

[zeppo]

One of the main reasons I thought of investing in an ereader was to help with learning Spanish - that is, I wanted to read spanish text and easily grab the translation of words. I have held out for a touch Kindle thinking the gains in the ease of accomplishing this would be worth the wait.

I also liked the free wireless on what is now called the Kindle Keyboard with 3G. I thought if I traveled it would be worth the extra $50 for email access since I doubt free wifi is as easily accessed abroad as it is in the US.

So now after finding that the Kindle Touch 3G won't allow email access, I am left with the added benefit that a touch dictionary may provide in translating Spanish. Before I can even weigh that comparison, I'd have to know that there is even a worthwhile Spanish to English dictionary available for the touch (will find the root of conjugated verbs or verbs with attached pronouns, or even works at all for that matter.)

I'm kind of surprised that a google search hasn't pulled up a lot of interest in the Kindle Touch by students of Spanish. To me it would seem to be a great primary tool. But at least I've found this thread about the functionality of dictionaries:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=159096

But I have started a new thread in hopes that students of Spanish can comment on how well the Kindle Touch is working out for them in terms of the effectiveness and ease of use in translating Spanish as you read please let us know. Also, if you have previously used the Kindle Keyboard for this purpose and compare the two for this use, please do.

Thanks!

[Seleya]

I'm teaching myself Spanish by reading novels, I don't know about the Touch, but one of the main points of the new non-Touch Kindle for me is that it comes with multiple dictionaries: British English, American English, German,  French, Italian, Spanish and Brazilian Portoguese (all mono-lingual).

From what I have seen on my new Kindle it comes with some kind of language-recognition ability if I'm reading a French book French dictionary definitions pop up, if I'm reading in Spanish the definitions are from the Spanish dictionary and so on.

The pre-loaded Spanish dictionary is el Diccionario de la lengua espanola (sorry, no tilde) twenty-second edition, published in 2001

[zeppo]

Thanks for the reply, Seleya.  The ease in getting word translations via a touch of the screen rather than using a cursor is the only reason I am interested in the Touch.  So I am having a time deciding whether its worth it after having picked up a Keyboard with unlimited 3G wireless for $85.   But to be able to just touch a word for a translation, it seems like such a marvelous feature that would make reading spanish so much more immediate.  However, with the cursor, the definition shows at the edge of the screen without obscuring the text, so there's no waiting for it to disappear as I understand may be necessary with the Touch.  Maybe these little lost seconds of time all even out.  The in store demo's are not good at all.  I wish I could really try out a Touch so I could compare it.

[Annalog]

When I use the dictionary on my K2, using Up on the cursor control starts at the bottom of the page while Down starts at the top. I find it fast and not obtrusive to the reading experience to access the dictionary this way. I also like how the dictionary definition does not obscure the book text unless I decide to move to the dictionary for more detail.

While I am not a student of Spanish, I often read older classics where the language is archaic sometimes causing frequent dictionary access.

[MariaESchneider]

Are the language dictionaries only on the touch Kindles? 

Interesting.  I need to look into this more.  I have a couple of stories in translation and I'd like to test out the dictionary feature...but I have the kindle 3g with keyboard.  So far as I can tell I only had the choice of two different English dictionaries.

If the dictionaries work on the 3g with keyboard (or can be had with a new software download) let me know if you know!

[zeppo]

You can purchase a dictionary for your kindle keyboard and set it as the default.  I think one of the good things about the Touch is it can be set to recognize a number of language and translate it to English without having to make it a default dictionary.  Don't know if this is true for the Keyboard.  Manually changing the default dictionary may be necessary with it.

That said, I think I'm going to keep the K Keyboard I got on black friday at target for $85 and hold off on the Touch.  I like the unlimited free 3G of the Keyboard that can get blogs or other feeds sent to it for free, whereas the Touch is subject to Amazon charges to receive those.  

What I won't get is the X-ray, but I actually worry about the spoiler potential of that feature, unless it can be set to hide the graph of where characters you click on appear throughout the remainder of the book.  I'd rather not know.  It would be great if it could review where they appear in the text you've already read, and make it where you have to click to see where they appear in the remainder, but I think the xray gives no way to avoid that graph and shows it as soon as you access xray.  

So that left me to think that for $185 I could get the Keyboard with 3G and charger and the Touch wifi if it came down to it.  So if it turns out later I like the Touch, I'll have two Kindles for not much more than one Touch with 3G and chArger.

  I really thought I'd like the touch for the language translation, but I think jockeying the cursor around as I read might not be so bad after all, especially as I start off needing to translate a lot.

[Seleya]

Maria: it's not only the Touch, the basic Kindle has the multiple dictionaries and language recognition as well.
I have a Kindle Keyboard on the same account as my basic K but the free dictionaries aren't available for download to the KK, I'll have to buy them.

[zeppo]

Maria: it's not only the Touch, the basic Kindle has the multiple dictionaries and language recognition as well.
I have a Kindle Keyboard on the same account as my basic K but the free dictionaries aren't available for download to the KK, I'll have to buy them.

Seleya, was I right about the K Keyboard not automatically switching to the appropriate dictionary like the new Kindles and that you have to manually change the default?  I'm hoping I'm wrong.

[Seleya]

Sorry to say you are right. With my Kindle Keyboard if I'm reading a British book I have to change the default dictionary to the British English one, my Basic Kindle recognizes the language I'm reading in and pulls the definition from the appropriate dictionary.

[geoffthomas]

What a great thread.
Thank you so much for posting this discussion.
I have a K2 and it had never occured to me that the new Ks might have this functionality.  This opens new doors for me.
Thanks again (off to read up on how to do it).

[zeppo]

Sorry to say you are right. With my Kindle Keyboard if I'm reading a British book I have to change the default dictionary to the British English one, my Basic Kindle recognizes the language I'm reading in and pulls the definition from the appropriate dictionary.

Thanks for the info.  Is it pretty easy to change the default back and forth,  or a bit of a pain?

[Seleya]

Sorry, I'd missed your question.
Changing the default isn't that big an hassle for me: from the menu of the home page you go to 'settings' then push the 'menu' button again, you'll see the option 'Change Primary Dictionary' cliking that brings you to a page where you'll see all your dictionaries, select the one you want as default and it's done.

EDIT: I think there's been some software change: I downloaded an Italian book to my Kindle Keyboard and it recognized the language and pulled out definitions from the Italian dictionary instead than the default American English one.

[MariaESchneider]

Oh, I see.  Thanks.  I missed the part about having to buy the dictionaries.  I knew I had to "switch" them, but I thought there were suddenly more options available for download.  Anyone have specific Spanish ones they like? Or is there only one?  I think I currently have two (but they were both free and are both English ones.)

[Ann in Arlington]

Oh, I see.  Thanks.  I missed the part about having to buy the dictionaries.  I knew I had to "switch" them, but I thought there were suddenly more options available for download.  Anyone have specific Spanish ones they like? Or is there only one?  I think I currently have two (but they were both free and are both English ones.)

With the K4, the dictionaries kind of come with it. . .you set the language in your initial set up and it won't load any but that appropriate dictionary, but the others are still there in your archived items if you need 'em.  You can re-send them to the device . . .and it sounds like, from what Seleya says, that it will know which is the one to use if you're reading a book in the other language.  That's pretty cool!

With older models, you had to buy the other language dictionaries.

The Touch is currently only sold in the US so I'm guessing it doesn't come with the other language ones . . . yet.  One hopes that when they expand it's distribution it will be much like the K4 in that. . . .

[shalym]

Maria: it's not only the Touch, the basic Kindle has the multiple dictionaries and language recognition as well.
I have a Kindle Keyboard on the same account as my basic K but the free dictionaries aren't available for download to the KK, I'll have to buy them.

Actually, this isn't true.  I have a basic K and a KK on my account, and while I can't view them from my archives on the KK, I can send any of the dictionaries to my KK from the Manage Your Kindle page on Amazon.

Shari

[Seleya]

I double-checked. From my Kindle Library on Amazon, when I go to one of the dictionaries and click 'send to' only my K4 is shown as available. The option to send the dictionaries to my KK is grayed out (as it my Kindle for PC), only the Italian dictionary shows as available for both Kindles (I set Italian as default language).

It was the same way for me on Amazon.com, before moving my Kindle account to the Italian site...May it be linked to geographical restrictions and my Italian ISP?   

[Ann in Arlington]

It looks like I can send the Italian dictionary to either my K4 or my Keyboard.  Same for Spanish.  The German and French ones I can only send to the K4.  I deleted the Portuguese one as a test so I can't check it.  Wonder why it's different?  (Looks like I can send the users guides pretty much anywhere.)

Oh, and my K4 is set for English and I've never switched it from anything else.  Both the American and British Dictionaries are on the device, but it's possible it just left the one and I put the other on myself. . . .I don't remember.

[shalym]

It looks like I can send the Italian dictionary to either my K4 or my Keyboard.  Same for Spanish.  The German and French ones I can only send to the K4.  I deleted the Portuguese one as a test so I can't check it.  Wonder why it's different?  (Looks like I can send the users guides pretty much anywhere.)

Oh, and my K4 is set for English and I've never switched it from anything else.  Both the American and British Dictionaries are on the device, but it's possible it just left the one and I put the other on myself. . . .I don't remember.

It looks like Seleya is in Italy--maybe that's the difference?  Or maybe it has something to do with the recent firmware update for the KK?  Seleya, have you updated your Kindle lately?

Shari

[Seleya]

I have had WiFi on, besides my KK must have had some kind of software update since now it has language recognition (when I'm reading in Italian it pulls definitions from the Italian dictionary even though my default is the American one).

CORRECTION: I checked again and the Spanish dictionary is indeed available for download to my KK, earlier I must have checked another one by mistake. Only Spanish and Italian have the option, though (and none show the 'Kindle for PC' as a valid option). 

[Ann in Arlington]

It looks like Seleya is in Italy--maybe that's the difference?  Or maybe it has something to do with the recent firmware update for the KK?  Seleya, have you updated your Kindle lately?

Shari

I was actually asking, more or less rhetorically , about why there's a difference between the Spanish and Italian dictionaries -- which I can send to my K3/Keyboard and the French and German ones which I can not.  

I can send any of them to the K4, which makes sense, as that's the device I purchased that made them show up in MYK.  

And I can't send any of them to any of my other devices. . .like the Fire or DX or apps that are attached to my account.

To my knowledge, there haven't been any software updates to the K3 -- which is what I think you're referring to as the KK -- the Keyboard model.  The latest one is from much earlier this year.

Can someone who has the K4 and the Touch check and see how it works for them? <cough>Betsy<cough> (I don't really have any need for any other language dictionaries, but now I'm curious. )

[Betsy the Quilter]

Yes, ma'am.  Checking now.....

Betsy

[Betsy the Quilter]

The only dictionaries I can send to the Touch (named "Buffy"  ) are the English language ones.  The several non-English language ones can go to Scout the K-4 Mini.  None can go to my K1, Eleanor. 

Betsy

[MariaESchneider]

I was actually asking, more or less rhetorically , about why there's a difference between the Spanish and Italian dictionaries -- which I can send to my K3/Keyboard and the French and German ones which I can not.  

I can send any of them to the K4, which makes sense, as that's the device I purchased that made them show up in MYK.  

And I can't send any of them to any of my other devices. . .like the Fire or DX or apps that are attached to my account.

To my knowledge, there haven't been any software updates to the K3 -- which is what I think you're referring to as the KK -- the Keyboard model.  The latest one is from much earlier this year.

Can someone who has the K4 and the Touch check and see how it works for them? <cough>Betsy<cough> (I don't really have any need for any other language dictionaries, but now I'm curious. )

I do have a software update for the keyboard 3g waiting to download.  It came about two weeks ago?  Maybe a week ago.  I was traveling and saw it there, but haven't done anything about it.

[Ann in Arlington]

I do have a software update for the keyboard 3g waiting to download.  It came about two weeks ago?  Maybe a week ago.  I was traveling and saw it there, but haven't done anything about it.

Really?  What version is it?  I thought 3.3 is the latest and I've had that for months.

The only dictionaries I can send to the Touch (named "Buffy"  ) are the English language ones.  The several non-English language ones can go to Scout the K-4 Mini.  None can go to my K1, Eleanor. 

Betsy

Hmmm.  Curious that it's different for the Touch.

[MariaESchneider]

Really?  What version is it?  I thought 3.3 is the latest and I've had that for months.

Hmmm.  Curious that it's different for the Touch.

How do I see the  version of the software?  It says it is a update for my Kindle Keyboard and includes AmazonLocal deals and other offers, synhcronizing my personal docs and more. 

But I don't know how to tell what I currently have loaded versus what the new one will be...sorry.  I'm going to go check the menus and find out the one that is loaded right now.

[MariaESchneider]

Okay, I have 3.3 on there and this is the message I got:

We have a new free software update available for your Kindle Keyboard that allows you to get AmazonLocal deals and other offers, download and synchronize your archived personal documents to your Kindle Keyboard conveniently and more. The features are available with a free software update that is delivered to your Kindle Keyboard via a Wi-Fi connection.

To be sure you receive the update, turn your Kindle wireless on and connect to an available Wi-Fi network (learn how to set up Wi-Fi on your Kindle). From the Home screen, select Menu and select "Sync and Check for Items." The software update will automatically download in the background and install the next time your Kindle goes into sleep mode. The update should take less than 10 minutes to complete. If a Wi-Fi connection is not available or you would prefer to transfer the update via USB, please view instructions here.

I'm guessing it has more to do with ads than it does anything else?  It doesn't list a version number probably until I actually do the update.

[Ann in Arlington]

It should be shown in settings.  If you recently switched to getting SO's when you didn't have them before, that could be the reason for the update. . .they need to load the code that does that. 

[MariaESchneider]

It should be shown in settings.  If you recently switched to getting SO's when you didn't have them before, that could be the reason for the update. . .they need to load the code that does that. 

No, I had SO from the get-go when I bought it in Oct.  Dunno what it includes.  I'll get 'round to downloading it next week.  Thsi week I've got a schedule that is beating me around the ears!

[Intangible]

...
And I can't send any of them to any of my other devices. . .like the Fire or DX or apps that are attached to my account.
...

For the Fire, I suspect that's because it hasn't been released internationally yet. The new, broader selection of dictionaries on the basic K4 coincided with its launch (along with localized Kindle Stores) in France, Spain, and Italy. Kindle Fire isn't available in Europe yet, and as far as I can tell Kindle Touch isn't either.

This is my first post as a member, and I was happy to find this discussion. I'm curious--what dictionaries have you found most useful as aids to reading in Spanish on Kindle?  Are there any recurring issues you've run into in using foreign language dictionaries on Kindle?

(Full disclosure: my company, Intangible Press, publishes dictionaries for Kindle.)

[Seleya]

I've had no trouble whatsoever with the provided dictionaries and I use them all the time.
I'd love to see some bi-lingual dictionaries available, specifically Spanish-English and Chinese-English , maybe one day...