Again...again! Software update...goodbye collections!

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

Once again, at the whim of Amazon, all my hard work (which should have been unnecessary to begin with if their collection feature wasn't prehistoric) is gone.

Instead of 3 new models, Amazon should have applied a little development attention to collections, which received no upgrade at all in the 3 new models.

The clunky, bare bones, flat collection feature is an embarrassment in today's world of technology, but it would be easier to ignore, after the initial time to set it up, if they didnt go and change things regularly so that one's collections no longer stayed organized.

It's not just about redoing the collections...with their limited organizational options... it's about having to research all the different special characters again which something in the Amazon back end changes so that they are no longer weighted the same as before.

This was one (major) reason I didnt and still do not consider upgrading to a new Kindle device.

Ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[Morf]

Lursa,

Can you clarify what Kindle model you are talking about, and what update has caused the change you are talking about?

We had a chat about the special characters here http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,85523.msg1353876.html#msg1353876, have they changed again for you since then?

[LauraB]

I have the touch, and it hasn't updated, but one thing I've noticed that is different from my k3 is that when I retrieve a book from my archive it goes immediately into a collection if it was in one before. I think it used to go to the home screen and then I had to put them back into the collection??

[Ann in Arlington]

I have the touch, and it hasn't updated, but one thing I've noticed that is different from my k3 is that when I retrieve a book from my archive it goes immediately into a collection if it was in one before. I think it used to go to the home screen and then I had to put them back into the collection??

I know that, previously, if you'd loaded books and then imported collections the books would sort themselves.  Perhaps if you've imported collections from another device and the book you are downloading was also once collected on that device, the tag hangs with it. . . . .

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

Lursa,

Can you clarify what Kindle model you are talking about, and what update has caused the change you are talking about?

We had a chat about the special characters here http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,85523.msg1353876.html#msg1353876, have they changed again for you since then?

Hi Morf, and yes, it's the same thing. It has happened again at least once since that thread in Sept (which was already my 2nd on the topic).

I have about 20 categories (some are dups for 'read') and am serious about sorting my books into categories (collections). To do so, I use the special characters to keep them prioritized. When these resets happen, sometimes amazon also changes the weight of the special characters.

Not only do some not work the same anymore, you have to go thru all the characters to see how they are weighted against each other. It's not just a matter of creating new categories (by typing on a clunky, primitive keyboard).

And thanks Ann...the books are in the correct collections...but the collections are all unsorted and random again.

I  have very few other complaints about the K3 as I use it for nothing but reading. I have no other expectations. I dont even mind the less-than-optimal keyboard as, ideally, I would rarely use it. Except that this forces me to do so.

[DreamWeaver]

Did I miss something? Has there been a recent K3 software update? My K3 Kindle Keyboard 3G currently has version 3.3, which I've had for a while, and that's the latest version showing on their software update web page.

[Morf]

No, and this is what is puzzling me. There hasn't been a software update for the K3 (Keyboard) for ages, so I can't see how anything has changed on Lursa's Kindle to cause these problems.

Lursa, please can you post your software version (Home, Menu, Settings and it's at the bottom of the screen).

I wonder if the problem is that only some characters (as specified in the previous thread) actually sort in a fixed order, and the rest sort in a random order which changes following a restart.

Are you restricting your category names to the special symbols in the previous thread:

_,.^~"([{$#+<=>|   0-9   a-z

Can you give us examples of what categories you use, how they were sorting, and how they are sorting now please?

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

Thanks Morf.

It's version 3.3 (611680021) and the time is set correctly.

I shouldnt use the word update maybe...maybe sometimes Amazon just forces some kind of reset? I know that there are times when I have to do a manual reset when it freezes (less often it seems! yeah!) and that doesnt affect the collections.

If it was sorting correctly like a couple of days ago, the current set that worked was:

.Currently reading
.Line Up
`Crime/Mystery/Thriller
`DIY

etc until I used another special character for a different prioritization:

^Crime/Mystery/Thriller - read
^General fiction - read

I was only using 3 special characters at that time, with minimal sorting capabilities because I anticipated it all being thrown out again and it's too timeconsuming figuring out the weight of the characters each time (since they change.)


And the last time that I redid my collections & spec chars, some of the ones in your bolded list didnt do anything (were not weighted at all, didnt register in the sorting).

[DreamWeaver]

I shouldnt use the word update maybe...maybe sometimes Amazon just forces some kind of reset? I know that there are times when I have to do a manual reset when it freezes (less often it seems! yeah!) and that doesnt affect the collections.

I've had two K3 Kindle Keyboard 3Gs, and I've never had a forced reset. I wonder if there may be something wrong with your device? Do you use the Kindle leather cover that was reportedly causing random reboot problems? Also, be sure that you are "safely ejecting" the Kindle after plugging it in. If not, that can mess things up a little.

[Morf]

I honestly don't believe that Amazon forces any reset out - as a thought, though, have you tried a manual restart (Home, Menu, Settings, Menu, Restart) to see if that puts things back in the right order?

Also, I've just re-re-read that thread again, and realised that I still haven't got the list of punctuation marks correct, I included comma and period which are not in the list, and I ignored the open quote which is in there. Also, there are inconsistencies in the list in the source itself, eg single and double quote are in both the "use" and the "don't use" lists!

So maybe the list should be;

_`^~([{$#+<=>|   0-9   a-z

and maybe it's the periods that are causing a problem.

I think the problem is mainly that we're not entirely sure about this list, it's not published by Amazon anywhere and it's just something we've gleaned from various sources!  

At the end of the day, I'm afraid I can't help much because I don't sort my collections like this, I sort "By Collections" and my Current collection is at the top most of the time because that's where I'm reading from!

Maybe there are other people out there who sort collections how you do and could advise what characters they use?

[Betsy the Quilter]

I think Heather (LuvMy4Brats) used to, but I'm not sure she's doing it anymore since Collections were implemented...

Betsy

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

I dont think I've plugged my K3 into my PC since I first got it back in June. I just plug it into the wall to charge it occasionally.

I dont turn wireless on unless I get a book and then I turn it off again. (Pretty frequent occurrance  )

I have no idea why all of a sudden my K3 goes blank and restarts on it's own occasionally.....I assume it's Amazon or a need to clear cache or memory, reset itself, who knows? I just know it's not me, and it's random and generally inconvenient.

However....since wireless isnt usually on when this occurs.....then maybe the device is just resetting to some default? Argh!

As for the list of characters, the weighting of the spec chars has changed over time. That doesnt mean they havent changed back tho! It's been fluid, almost random....

Edit: No I dont use a leather cover and while I do use the Simple Light that uses the K battery, this problem occurred before I got the light too.

[Morf]

I have no idea why all of a sudden my K3 goes blank and restarts on it's own occasionally.....I assume it's Amazon or a need to clear cache or memory, reset itself, who knows? I just know it's not me, and it's random and generally inconvenient.

It's certainly not done by Amazon, and it's certainly not normal.

A Kindle should be able to go for months without a restart, and should never restart by itself.

If I were you, I'd get in touch with Amazon CS - even if it's out of warranty - and raise it with them. Don't raise the collection sorting problem, just tell them that your Kindle keeps restarting itself. Chances are they will arrange a replacement.

This isn't addressing your problem of collection sorting, I know, but that will be easier to troubleshoot when you have a Kindle that works properly. It might even be that this is the cause of the problem: if something is wrong inside your Kindle causing it to reboot, that could also be messing up the sort order.

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

It's certainly not done by Amazon, and it's certainly not normal.

A Kindle should be able to go for months without a restart, and should never restart by itself.

If I were you, I'd get in touch with Amazon CS - even if it's out of warranty - and raise it with them. Don't raise the collection sorting problem, just tell them that your Kindle keeps restarting itself. Chances are they will arrange a replacement.

This isn't addressing your problem of collection sorting, I know, but that will be easier to troubleshoot when you have a Kindle that works properly. It might even be that this is the cause of the problem: if something is wrong inside your Kindle causing it to reboot, that could also be messing up the sort order.

Yes, and I have had some of the 'freezing' issues that I've read about too.

But thus far I have no cracks in case or screen(& I commute with mine...it goes everywhere!) and no other issues that I read about frequently. I've almost considered myself lucky! I'm afraid if I got a replacement I'd end up worse off.

I'd say the resets are about twice a month (or can be a quick series of them) and they dont always mess up the collections.

Thinking in terms of computers...which may not be directly comparable...since I rarely turn off the K but just let it go to sleep, I can see that the device may need to power down or reset on it's own occasionally to refresh memory or other functionality.  Computers need to do this, maybe Ks do too.

It's the messing around with special characters, changing them, that really gets to me!

But I guess I can contact them and ask them about the resets. Cant hurt, right? 

[Morf]

Yes, and I have had some of the 'freezing' issues that I've read about too.

But thus far I have no cracks in case or screen(& I commute with mine...it goes everywhere!) and no other issues that I read about frequently. I've almost considered myself lucky! I'm afraid if I got a replacement I'd end up worse off.

Mine is about 15 months old, and I carry it everywhere with me as well. No cracks! I think that these problems are few and far between - remember that on a forum like this you hear from the tiny percentage of people who have problems, not from the huge numbers of people for whom it's working fine.

Thinking in terms of computers...which may not be directly comparable...since I rarely turn off the K but just let it go to sleep, I can see that the device may need to power down or reset on it's own occasionally to refresh memory or other functionality.  Computers need to do this, maybe Ks do too.

Whether you let the K go to sleep, or flick the switch (which simply puts it to sleep), it doesn't need to power down or reset itself. Again, mine has never restarted itself in 15 months of use.... if yours does it's faulty!

It's the messing around with special characters, changing them, that really gets to me!

I honestly don't believe anything changes about the sort order. One thing I do see with my K, though, is that occasionally my latest read book doesn't go to the top of the list (as it should do the way mine is set), but stays lower down the list. A manual restart sorts this. I've got a feeling what you are seeing is a variation of this problem, possibly mixed up with the fact that we don't really know which characters sort and which are ignored.

But I guess I can contact them and ask them about the resets. Cant hurt, right? 

Do it! 

[DreamWeaver]

It's certainly not done by Amazon, and it's certainly not normal.

A Kindle should be able to go for months without a restart, and should never restart by itself.

If I were you, I'd get in touch with Amazon CS - even if it's out of warranty - and raise it with them. Don't raise the collection sorting problem, just tell them that your Kindle keeps restarting itself. Chances are they will arrange a replacement.

I agree with everything Morf said. It isn't "normal." I've had two K3s over a year period (the first one developed a screen defect and later the time it held a battery charge shortened drastically, so it was replaced), and I've never had either device spontaneously reboot like that.

I hesitated to have mine replaced too, but I'm sure glad I did! Once you receive your replacement, you have 90 days to try it out and make sure it's okay. Since Amazon seems to be discontinuing the K3, I suggest that you get a new one ASAP. My replacement looks brand new and works great, by the way. It's possible that the insides are refurbished (I'm not sure), but the outside is definitely all new.

[Ann in Arlington]

I agree with Morf and DW. . . .if your Kindle is randomly restarting a couple of times a month. . .that's not normal. . . .I wonder. . .how many books do you have on it?. . . .I noticed wonky behavior in mind when I got past 1000.  I did a factory reset and only re-loaded a couple dozen and it's been much happier ever since.

But, still, as it's supposed to be able to hold 3500 books, that shouldn't really happen.

I'm also of the opinion that the more collections you have the more likely you are to have problems . . . again, it shouldn't happen, but . . . . .

[Betsy the Quilter]

I agree with Morf and DW. . . .if your Kindle is randomly restarting a couple of times a month. . .that's not normal. . . .I wonder. . .how many books do you have on it?. . . .I noticed wonky behavior in mind when I got past 1000.  I did a factory reset and only re-loaded a couple dozen and it's been much happier ever since.

But, still, as it's supposed to be able to hold 3500 books, that shouldn't really happen.

I'm also of the opinion that the more collections you have the more likely you are to have problems . . . again, it shouldn't happen, but . . . . .

I don't think Lursa's using collections as such, instead she's putting in special characters to sort her list of books "alphabetically;" putting a special character in front of each book title that she considers to be part of a collection.  So, if a book titel starts with a "." it's part of one collection, and then the title sorts alphabetically with the books that start with a "."

Betsy

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

I don't think Lursa's using collections as such, instead she's putting in special characters to sort her list of books "alphabetically;" putting a special character in front of each book title that she considers to be part of a collection.  So, if a book titel starts with a "." it's part of one collection, and then the title sorts alphabetically with the books that start with a "."

Betsy

Almost Betsy....I use the characters to sort the collections into alphabetical order, not the books. (Altho I have one book title that starts with a ? and screws everything up! If I change that book title, will the original still be listed on my K?) I sort by title and use special characters for every collection so that they always come before individual books.

Ann, I have about 425 books on my K. This started when I had at least half that, if not less.

[Betsy the Quilter]

Ok, sorry, I'm sort of new with collections--I never had a K3 but my K4 sorts my collections by most recent when I sort by collection and the Touch sorts them alphabetically.   

Betsy

[Lursa (aka 9MMare)]

Ok, sorry, I'm sort of new with collections--I never had a K3 but my K4 sorts my collections by most recent when I sort by collection and the Touch sorts them alphabetically.   

Betsy

Right. The Kindle doesnt sort by collections. It has one form of sorting called 'collections.' But you cant organize the collections (or nest them) within that sort.

If you choose 'alphabetical' sorting, then it sorts everything on the Kindle alphabetically...including collections. They are not weighted differently, they just get mixed in with the book titles.

So I have 27 collections and want Currently Reading and Line Up first. Then my primary collections next...and not have Science and Sci-fi near the end, and then all the 'Read' collections at the very end. Everytime I read something from a different collection...or look thru my books, that they always show up in a different order because they come up 'most recent first.' Not helpful.

So I used special characters in front of the collection titles to make them come up in the order I wanted when sorting the Kindle alphabetically. And while that takes awhile to set up, to type in, and mostly, to determine the weights of the characters, it worked fine.

Except that after these resets, they're all messed up again and some of the characters' values change and they no longer have the same weight and despite what others have said, yes this does happen, I have had entire lists written out on envelopes for previous and current.)

IMO it's a very low-tech, bare bones, primitive feature for a software-based electronic device today.