Establishing a second Amazon account and accessing it from another country

[bchaplin]

I want to gift my spare Kindle to a family member who lives in another country, Brazil. But I don't want his Kindle to be tied to my Amazon account. I would like to open a new account and put some credit on it, so he could buy books from the United States store. Would this work? I guess there are two questions:

1. Is there a way to open a second account in my name, but using gift cards rather than my credit card?

2. Can it be accessed from a non-U.S. country without having any limits on what books can be purchased?

(If it matters, the Kindle is wifi, not 3G, so that will not be an issue.) Thanks for any advice!

[kindlegrl81]

You could probably get away with setting up an account with a pre-paid debit card and having him add gift cards from then on out.  However, he would probably need you to do the purchases since I think amazon can keep track of your IP address and shut the account down if they see too many purchases in another country.

[bchaplin]

However, he would probably need you to do the purchases since I think amazon can keep track of your IP address and shut the account down if they see too many purchases in another country.

Thanks! That's the kind of thing that's useful to know. I know I've purchased books while traveling, but if there were too many it might cause some kind of flag to go up.

[editored]

FWIW, last year I tried downloading free books from Amazon to a Kindle emulator on my laptop while I was on holiday in Asia. After a few books, I think about five, the Amazon system suspended my account. In reply to an email querying what was going on, an Amazon rep. replied that I could download three more books, which seemed a little odd, given the books I had downloaded were public domain, copyright expired.

My guess is that Amazon have signed agreements with publishers with restrictive geographical distribution rights. I believe there's a technical solution around this, if you need it.

[toadhall]

I'm in Malaysia but I use a US Amazon account. I was blocked once before, and I tried somebody's suggestion of changing the address that's associated with the account to another valid US address.

At first I didn't think the solution worked as I was still blocked from buying ebooks. But then, after two weeks or so, I was magically unblocked and I've bought 34 ebooks since then. Just bought two Ed McBain books only a few moments ago.

Crossing fingers so I don't get blocked again.

[ProfCrash]

The trick is to use a VPN blocker and a US based address that is not obviously fake (so don't use Amazon's headquarters or the White House). If you can block them from reading your ISP and you have a US address you are good to go. You do want to be careful with how many purchases you make so as to not draw attention to your account. So buying 30 books in one day would be silly but buying a few books a day woud be fine.

At least that is what has been reported at Mobile Reads.

[Ann in Arlington]

Note that the above is not recommended by KB -- circumventing "your country" to buy book to which you would not otherwise have access to is against Amazon's terms of service.

That said, if you are a US citizen living in another country, I believe there is a way to get that fact registered with Amazon so you can use the US store.  If you're not a citizen, of course, that's not going to be possible.

[bchaplin]

Thanks again for the feedback.
Now that I think about it, there are people my dad knows who can set up proxy servers and all that stuff. (Which I really don't know anything about because I've never needed to do it.) Or I could purchase books here and send to his Kindle, which will be connected through wifi. I think I will go through with sending the Kindle to him, and let him explore the options.
I don't think he is a voracious reader so it shouldn't be a big deal to handle the few books he might want to buy.

[HappyGuy]

Another way, although a bit more convoluted, might be to register the Kindle to your account, then YOU purchase the books, download them to your PC and email the file to them. 

[editored]

That said, if you are a US citizen living in another country, I believe there is a way to get that fact registered with Amazon so you can use the US store.  If you're not a citizen, of course, that's not going to be possible.

I would be interested to know if registering your US citizenship would be sufficient. Surely, the publishing agreements hinge on sales region not customer nationality?

[Ann in Arlington]

I would be interested to know if registering your US citizenship would be sufficient. Surely, the publishing agreements hinge on sales region not customer nationality?

We have at least one member here who is a US citizen but resident in the UK.  She was able to forward to Amazon a copy of her US passport and thereby have access to the US website.

When I lived in the UK I could buy stuff from the US as much as I wanted and have it shipped -- just had to be willing to pay duty.  That was over 15 years ago and I realize things are much changed now!  I could also, of course, patronize the local shops in my village -- and I certainly did!

[abacus]

We have at least one member here who is a US citizen but resident in the UK.  She was able to forward to Amazon a copy of her US passport and thereby have access to the US website.

This discussion is getting a bit confusing. 

For Amazon purchases generally - i.e. not Kindle content - you can have several accounts with Amazon.  I have three.  Some information is automatically shared between them, but orders and payments are separate.

But if we're talking about Kindle content (which I assume we are, because this is a Kindle board) my understanding is that no matter how many accounts you have, you can order only from the site to which your Kindle is registered.  Amazon says this quite clearly, and I know that if I try to order something from any other site I get a message saying "this order will be transferred to Amazon.X, to which your Kindle is registered." 

Now if your friend, having proved her citizenship, was able to buy Kindle content not only from the US site but also from the UK site, then I must be wrong, and I apologize.  But it doesn't seem to agree with what Amazon says.  (Unless she has more than one Kindle, each registered to a different site - that might work.)

I do get occasional messages politely inviting me to re-register, and it seems that you can change the registration as often as you like.  So far I've done it once.  No proof of residence or citizenship or anything else was required, and Amazon didn't even ask why I was making the change.  In any case I agree with 'editored': with respect, I don't believe that citizenship plays any part in Amazon's terms and conditions, nor in sales tax law, nor in copyright restrictions.

[ProfCrash]

The difference is that e-books have geographic restrictions on their sale that paperback books don't. If you live outside the US you can buy a paperback/hardback book from Amazon in the US because the sale is treated as if you are at the counter in the US even though you are at your computer in Australia.

For some silly reason, e-books are treated as you are purchasing the book in your home country. So if you live in Australia and are trying to buy  book from Amazon USA you cannot because Amazon USA does not have permission to sell a book in Australia.

I do believe that people have to choose one Amazon e-book store to purchase books from. I do think that you can get around that if you are a US citizen, or someone who thinks all of this is incredibly stupid and chooses to treat e-books as DTB and find ways to circumvent the stupidity using easily available technology. If you are a US citizen living abroad you can send them your passport and use a US based credit card to shop at the US store. I think you can set up a second account using your British info. Then register and deregister from each account to add the books you want.

[kindlegrl81]

This discussion is getting a bit confusing. 

For Amazon purchases generally - i.e. not Kindle content - you can have several accounts with Amazon.  I have three.  Some information is automatically shared between them, but orders and payments are separate.

But if we're talking about Kindle content (which I assume we are, because this is a Kindle board) my understanding is that no matter how many accounts you have, you can order only from the site to which your Kindle is registered.  Amazon says this quite clearly, and I know that if I try to order something from any other site I get a message saying "this order will be transferred to Amazon.X, to which your Kindle is registered." 

Now if your friend, having proved her citizenship, was able to buy Kindle content not only from the US site but also from the UK site, then I must be wrong, and I apologize.  But it doesn't seem to agree with what Amazon says.  (Unless she has more than one Kindle, each registered to a different site - that might work.)

I do get occasional messages politely inviting me to re-register, and it seems that you can change the registration as often as you like.  So far I've done it once.  No proof of residence or citizenship or anything else was required, and Amazon didn't even ask why I was making the change.  In any case I agree with 'editored': with respect, I don't believe that citizenship plays any part in Amazon's terms and conditions, nor in sales tax law, nor in copyright restrictions.

She didn't say the person was using both the US and the UK Kindle store.  She said they were living in the UK but since they could prove they were a US citizen they were able to purchase their books from the US store instead of the UK store.

This might be something the OP can look into in order for their friend to use the US store.

[abacus]

She didn't say the person was using both the US and the UK Kindle store.  She said they were living in the UK but since they could prove they were a US citizen they were able to purchase their books from the US store instead of the UK store.

I think you've missed my point.  If you are resident in Europe but you want to buy Kindle content from Amazon's US store, you don't need to prove your citizenship.

If you log on to Amazon and go to Your account -> Your Kindle account -> Manage your Kindle store you get the option to change your chosen store to Amazon.com.  You are not asked to prove your nationality or even to state what it is.  (At least, this works for me in France; I'd be surprised if it was different for residents in the UK.)  Why would anyone be interested in your nationality, anyway?

Things change, of course, and it may be that this option didn't exist when Ann's friend needed it.  But I would still be interested to know why she sent a copy of her passport: I wonder whether Amazon actually demanded it, or whether she just thought it would be a good idea. 

As I said before, I don't believe that citizenship plays any part in Amazon's procedures or conditions.

[Ann in Arlington]

I think you've missed my point.  If you are resident in Europe but you want to buy Kindle content from Amazon's US store, you don't need to prove your citizenship.

If you log on to Amazon and go to Your account -> Your Kindle account -> Manage your Kindle store you get the option to change your chosen store to Amazon.com.  You are not asked to prove your nationality or even to state what it is.  (At least, this works for me in France; I'd be surprised if it was different for residents in the UK.)  Why would anyone be interested in your nationality, anyway?

Things change, of course, and it may be that this option didn't exist when Ann's friend needed it.  But I would still be interested to know why she sent a copy of her passport: I wonder whether Amazon actually demanded it, or whether she just thought it would be a good idea. 

As I said before, I don't believe that citizenship plays any part in Amazon's procedures or conditions.

My anecdote earlier was based on a specific story told by a member here.  She is a US citizen resident in the UK and after changing her 'country' to the US (an option basically available from the beginning; the default was based initially on your billing address) and buying a few things, she was contacted by Amazon.  They could tell she was NOT in the US by the IP she was using, and asked for clarification.  She told them she was a US citizen, they asked for a copy of her US passport, and they let her leave US as her country.  If she had not been able to satisfy them that she had a valid, real, US address and was a citizen -- as opposed to some unconnected person using a made up address -- they were going to lock her out of US purchases based on the IP she was accessing the site from.

And this is not the only person, over the last 4 years, who has related that they'd been accessing the US site from another country and had been contacted about it by Amazon.  My understanding is that Amazon is REQUIRED to do this based on the agreements they have about selling eBooks in various countries.  The agreements may vary from country to country, but because of varying copyright rules, they must, by way of due diligence, check on people buying from outside the US when it comes to their notice.

To be fair, people have also related that they've randomly changed their 'country' and/or address whenever they wished, never heard from Amazon, and have just gone on purchasing whatever they liked.  But doing so IS against Amazon's Terms of Service.  You should only be buying books that are available to you as resident of whatever country you're in.  Sadly, sometimes that really limits your selection.  But methods to get around it are not condoned and you run the risk of Amazon shutting down the account altogether.

[abacus]

And this is not the only person, over the last 4 years, who has related that they'd been accessing the US site from another country and had been contacted about it by Amazon.  My understanding is that Amazon is REQUIRED to do this based on the agreements they have about selling eBooks in various countries.  The agreements may vary from country to country, but because of varying copyright rules, they must, by way of due diligence, check on people buying from outside the US when it comes to their notice.

The procedure that I described ("manage your Kindle account", etc) seems to be designed to allow, without any formalities, exactly what we're talking about, i.e. moving out of the US but still preferring to buy from the US site.

It's difficult to believe that Amazon would be so inconsistent.  The only explanation I can think of it that the rules have changed, perhaps because of a change in copyright law.  Such things do happen.  Anyway, it's good news if it gives Amazon's customers more freedom of choice.

To be fair, people have also related that they've randomly changed their 'country' and/or address whenever they wished, never heard from Amazon, and have just gone on purchasing whatever they liked.  But doing so IS against Amazon's Terms of Service.  You should only be buying books that are available to you as resident of whatever country you're in.

I don't want to beat this question to death, but can you quote exactly where Amazon's T&C say this?  I'm interested because I checked the T&C pretty thoroughly (I thought) before I bought my Kindle, precisely because I didn't want to have this kind of problem.  I couldn't find any statement to that effect, although I know it's widely believed.